[NFP] Babylon First Look

[SammyKhalifa]

While it remains to be seen whether this will be a civ I really like or not, I do like the mindset that it's a different way to look at how to gain technologies.

 

[Alexadamz]

Babylon eureka game is great, and I will really enjoy playing it. I just hope they change some of the older civs with similar bonuses. I have been playing with Phoenicia latelly, and starting with Writing eureka is just so irrelevant, as that eureka is one of the easiest to get. Babylon just gets the full tech rightaway, ignoring the prereq of uneureka Pottery, so that Phoenicia trait is even less useful. If Phoenicia started with Writing researched, it would be really big, specially for harder difficulties. Campus buildable from turn-1 is huge.

 

[TreVor_ish]

UPDATE TraitModifiers
SET ModifierId = "TRAIT_PHOENICIA_FREE_TECH_WRITING"
WHERE TraitType = "TRAIT_CIVILIZATION_MEDITERRANEAN_COLONIES" AND ModifierId = "TRAIT_FREE_TECH_BOOST_WRITING";

DELETE FROM Modifiers
WHERE ModifierId = "TRAIT_FREE_TECH_BOOST_WRITING";

INSERT INTO Modifiers (ModifierId, ModifierType)
VALUES ('TRAIT_PHOENICIA_FREE_TECH_WRITING', 'MODIFIER_PLAYER_GRANT_SPECIFIC_TECHNOLOGY');

DELETE FROM ModifierArguments
WHERE ModifierId = "TRAIT_FREE_TECH_BOOST_WRITING";

INSERT INTO ModifierArguments (ModifierId, Name, Value)
VALUES ('TRAIT_PHOENICIA_FREE_TECH_WRITING', 'TechType', 'TECH_WRITING');

EDIT:
There is also a mod that does this and more (by p0kiehl):
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1667907591

 

[The Kingmaker]

Just as an example of filling it out, we could have:

• Morroco/Portugal (assuming one of these is in NFP)
• Argentina
• 1-2 North American Indigenous
• Australian Aboriginal (assuming an acceptable depiction can be found)
• Sámi
• Assyria
• Armenia
• Afghanistan
• Ireland
• Italy/Florence/Genoa/Milan/Venice
• Bulgaria
• Sultinate of Zanzibar
• Hapshepsut/Ramsesses

If it were me, I might pick the following for a Final Frontier, assuming we get eight civs again.

Assyria
Morocco/al-Andalus
Iroquois
Another NA (Navajo? Cherokee?)
Italy
The Goths
Something Central Asian (Kushans? Timurids?)
Burma or Siam

In particular, I’ve noticed some considerable Assyria talk in the wake of Babylon’s announcement. I think there’s still a demand for more.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Something Central Asian (Kushans? Timurids?)

I think Samarkand as the new City State successfully eliminates any chance of a future Central Asian civ. Maybe in Civ VII.

 

[UWHabs]

You want at least two campuses by the Medieval era, so you can build two Universities to get the Eureka for Printing and Astronomy. If you're going to build them anyway, you might as well build one in early game, to speed up the first three techs, two of those being a requirement to get some early Eurekas, and in case you can't get an early science boost, like Sailing if you're landlocked. You'll also get a free library when its worth the most and start generating some Great Scientist points. Considering how low your science will be in early game, even a halved Campus output can be quite significant, assuming you can get a decent adjacency. You'll also need an early campus to build the Great Library (Classical era) and two campuses gives you the Inspiration for the Civic that unlocks said wonder.

So, yeah, you can't just forget about campuses. You won't need to spam them all over the place, at least not into late game, but you need to build at least two in early eras.

Given that a library early on costs as much or possibly even more than the district itself, if you can get at least +2 on your first campus, then you're not going to fall too far behind in science if you can get that campus up early. And given that there's a bunch of relatively easy eurekas to get early on, and that most of the time, you will be able to get writing before any other civ, yeah, a couple early campuses certainly are going to be very important.

The flexibility is if you're not going hard on campuses, though, you can care a little less. Like they're a civ that I would probably take a +1 campus next to a mountain as more important than a +3 near, say, a reef and a couple jungles, just because that mountain campus/university gives you a free tech. And if you're not going hard on campuses due to reduced output, then each science point you get matters less.

They're also a civ I will almost certainly want to rush to Pingala's Grants promotion and skip the science per citizen piece. I've found early in the game if you're only get +1 great scientist point, I'd much rather get the +5-7 raw science and delay Grants until I have a couple districts or buildings down. But with Babylon and secret societies, you could very easily get an early campus (+library), and then get Pingala/Grants, and suddenly you're at +4 great scientist points per turn, or more if you picked the right pantheon, and you can just be crushing all those early scientists.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Samarkand as the new City State successfully eliminates any chance of a future Central Asian civ. Maybe in Civ VII.

Perhaps for NFP, but they were speculating about the civs of a 4th content push.

 

[Zaarin]

Perhaps for NFP, but they were speculating about the civs of a 4th content push.

The question would be whether they were willing to rename a city-state they just released, since whatever one chose in Central Asia, it would be centered on Samarkand.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think Samarkand as the new City State successfully eliminates any chance of a future Central Asian civ. Maybe in Civ VII.

People did say the same thing about the Babylon city state. Just saying.

 

[Potworny]

If this really is the installment for yet another record-shattering civ batch, then we really are at our Finest Hour.

 

[8housesofelixir]

People did say the same thing about the Babylon city state. Just saying.

Babylon existed in the game for more than 2 years, while Samarkand just got into the game. Wait another 2 years then.

 

[pokiehl]

I think Samarkand as the new City State successfully eliminates any chance of a future Central Asian civ. Maybe in Civ VII.

Perhaps for NFP, but they were speculating about the civs of a 4th content push.

People did say the same thing about the Babylon city state. Just saying.

I think elixir is right. No city state with a unique improvement has ever been replaced.

 

[8housesofelixir]

No city state with a unique improvement has ever been replaced.

Interesting point, I actually never thought of that.

Come to think of it, CS unique improvements is deeply related to the characteristics of the said City State, so a CS replacement will be unlikely. One can try to replace Armagh with another monastery, but how can you replace Nazca or Rapa Nui?

 

[Zaarin]

Interesting point, I actually never thought of that.

Come to think of it, CS unique improvements is deeply related to the characteristics of the said City State, so a CS replacement will be unlikely. One can try to replace Armagh with another monastery, but how can you replace Nazca or Rapa Nui?

The Trade Dome could be transferred to Bukhara easily enough, but would they when they literally just introduced it?

 

[8housesofelixir]

The Trade Dome could be transferred to Bukhara easily enough, but would they when they literally just introduced it?

Considering the distance between Samarkand and Bukhara - less than 300 km - as well as the cultural region, a Central Asian civ will more likely have both of them in its city list.

I really like implementing Samarkand as a City State, for it really was a CS for at least 1000 years. Samarkand was both an important independent City State and the capital of great Central Asian empires, to make it only a CS or only a capital is a hard choice.

 

[Zaarin]

I really like implementing Samarkand as a City State, for it really was a CS for at least 1000 years. Samarkand was both an important independent City State and the capital of great Central Asian empires, to make it only a CS or only a capital is a hard choice.

True, but no Samarkand means no Sogdia and no Timurids, though we could still have Kushan.

 

[8housesofelixir]

True, but no Samarkand means no Sogdia and no Timurids, though we could still have Kushan.

I think we are not going to see Sogdia in Civ for a long time (maybe in a Humankind DLC, but, who knows), so I can accept a Samarkand CS with a UI.

 

[PlayAsPericles]

This will easily become one of my favorite civs to play. I almost always play for a science win and this is right up my alley. While there are many civs that can do well for science I like civs that are super focused on science but usually leave them for opponents but now instead of always leaving Korea to be an AI opponent I'll be able to choose to play either one of these two now with the other being an AI opponent.

 

[Birch617]

Interesting point, I actually never thought of that.

Come to think of it, CS unique improvements is deeply related to the characteristics of the said City State, so a CS replacement will be unlikely. One can try to replace Armagh with another monastery, but how can you replace Nazca or Rapa Nui?

The only idea i had for a replacement for city-state with an UI is for La Venta; obviously they would have to change the model of UI but it would work the same way; my idea been a San Agustin culture city-state; the unique improvement would work in the same way and San Agustin culture shares that monolithic ancient monument of the americas that La Venta city-state has

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

i like different playstyles and i love that firaxis is experimenting with some crazy ideas. sure we can see some buffs or nerfs as needed. for example for babylon:
what happens if i beeline to horseman , chop out a few , go first raid and then conquering my neighbour while leapfrogging to cavalry? then upgrade with the spoils of war to cavalry and conquer everything on my continent? i know you can oneshot units if you have 30+ more combat strength , do you receive zero damage as well?