[NFP] Babylon First Look

You still get the Campus moment even though the yield is eventually halved. I'm a bit slow but wasn't sure how that would work.
 
Anyone else not feeling this civ at all? It feels really gimmicky and unreliable. It seems like you are locked into chasing eurekas, whether or not you really need them. It's like I have chains around me, I don't feel any freedom.

Leader ability: Free building is pretty cool, but circumstances of this game has me finally starting my first specialty district 78 turns in. I haven't built anything in my capital because I'm too busy making settlers, workers, and military units.

Civ ability: hey, I love the instant techs. But this is requiring an annoying consultation of the eureka requirements, to a micromanagement level. And the -50% science malus is straight up the worst malus in the game. I thought Mali had it bad, but this is a whole other level. Getting the ancient and classical techs is pretty easy, but now it feels pretty daunting from here on out.

Unique unit: pointless? I discovered iron working really fast, now I can get them upgraded to swordsmen if I want. They don't discover as good as scouts nor are they as cheap as them, and only are good against horses. No Sumeria in this game (who I just befriend ASAP anyways) and no horse barbarians, so what's the point?

Unique building: it's alright, good for starting a city, but my cities are going into negative amenities fast, so the growth bonus seems pointless.

So I can't say I'm liking Babylon. It seems like they could possibly be fun if you have a close neighbor (which I don't) and are able to unlock some great units to invade them (but there's the production/gold bottleneck). Feels like a more gimmicky challenge mode. Maybe others can appreciate them, but this is just not my style at all.

From limited experience so far, I'd say they hit exactly what they were aiming for - a civ that plays very distinctly and actually exhibits the 'play to the map' playstyle they claimed in early advertising that Civ VI was meant to emphasise and never really did (at least to any greater degree than any other game in the series). I like the fact that it exists whether or not I'll ultimately like the way it plays (and I don't much like the eureka system so once the novelty wears off I doubt I will).

This is a civ that should have been created at the game's inception as something different that really plays with this version's new core mechanic.
 
I understand your frustration.
I'm not sure if that is such a bad thing?
The AI doesn't expand or tech very well on those types of maps in my experience.
I would think you could just settler rush and crush.
Of course I don't play on Huge Maps though.
I couldn't play anything bigger than standard.
Let us know how the game went or how your next game is going.

yeah... problem is I got an invite to Sanguine very fast, and accepted it... and have already found 2 heroes... but I can't use them because I can't get them in water yet and have no one to fight !

Still, all is not lost...maybe I'll enjoy it later on
 
I would still argue Hercules free build three districts - multiple times potentially, is a little more absurd. If theyre going to nerf anyone it should be hercules.

Not totally Babylon related, but...

Beowulf is likely going to be nerfed. His ability is ridiculously overpowered.

Not only does it work on naval units, but it also apparently also works on city defenders [I was given the option but didn't try, so can't confirm if it works]. I've yet to see a unit of a comparable era stronger than him. Given you can resurrect him 6 or 7 times should you get him in the ancient era, it's a wee bit ridiculous to be able to completely erase a unit 6 times.

You're both ignoring Sinbad. Every time he discovers a new Continent and Natural Wonder, he gains 500 Gold. 500. And then there's his other ability. Target an adjacent Coastal Enemy Unit or Barbarian Camp and damages the Unit for 50% of its Health, or destroy the Camp. Oh, and you also gain 700 Gold while at it.
 
You're both ignoring Sinbad. Every time he discovers a new Continent and Natural Wonder, he gains 500 Gold. 500. And then there's his other ability. Target an adjacent Coastal Enemy Unit or Barbarian Camp and damages the Unit for 50% of its Health, or destroy the Camp. Oh, and you also gain 700 Gold while at it.

Basically Spain from Civ V.
 
Anyone else not feeling this civ at all? It feels really gimmicky and unreliable. It seems like you are locked into chasing eurekas, whether or not you really need them. It's like I have chains around me, I don't feel any freedom.

I'm always chasing Eureka's in all my games anyway.
I feel a little more rushed to roll Civs but I've only played game one up to turn 100.
Deity/All Standard/Heroes.
Made plenty of mistakes but killed England which is always fun for me.
I'm having more trouble with all the silly Heroes I've unlocked.
 
Not totally Babylon related, but...

Beowulf is likely going to be nerfed. His ability is ridiculously overpowered.

Not only does it work on naval units, but it also apparently also works on city defenders [I was given the option but didn't try, so can't confirm if it works]. I've yet to see a unit of a comparable era stronger than him. Given you can resurrect him 6 or 7 times should you get him in the ancient era, it's a wee bit ridiculous to be able to completely erase a unit 6 times.

Beowulf works on city defenders. Boy does he work on City Defenders . . .

My first 'test' game was with Babylon, and I agree with the previous Post: frustrating Civ to play, simply because you spend most of your time chasing Eurekas and trying to Avoid too much Tech because it stifles production. Also, built exactly one of the UUs and promoted him to Swordsman within 20 turns - he barely got out of Babylonian territory before he was gone. I dropped the game at Turn 120, when I had already gotten to Coursers, Pikemen, and Musketmen, had Niter and Iron both stockpiling, and nobody else had anything better than Horsemen and Swordsmen. I hadn't actually fought anybody yet, but it was getting to be too much of a temptation . . .

Second game, specifically Not including Babylon so as to play with the Heroes Mode. Holy Herring On A Half-Shell! Wiped out my nearest neighbor (Norway) with Beowulf, a Scout, a pair of Archers and a couple of Warriors - and they had Archers, too. But the tactic of holding a city with a defending Archer is Suicidal against the Wulf: none of Norway's three cities had a Defense Factor with defender of more than 26, and he just waltzed through them: 1 turn for 1st city, 2 turns of movement, 1 turn for second city, 1 turn of movement, 1 turn for the last city. I have never wiped out a multi-city Civ that fast in any previous game, even with Great General-speeded up Artillery or Battleships/Bombers.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that any of the Heroes need Instant Nerf until I try out some of the others, or get a chance to see how Opposing Heroes work for the gamer/AI, but right now if I see another Civ with Beowulf, I'm going to do everything in my little digital Diplomatic Power to Make Friends Fast . . .
 
I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed with the UU. It's barely stronger than a scout and fighting barb warriors is rough. It does okay against barb spearmen. I haven't actually found a barb horseman to tangle with yet.
I see it as an uberscout instead of a warrior. It's nice to reveal map and get camps.

I keep restarting because I think of different things I want to do, and all of the games seems to play differently with them. Game one I got a really early religion and ragequit when India wouldn't stop missionary spamming me. Game #2 I got a harbor down on turn 20 or something like that.
 
I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed with the UU. It's barely stronger than a scout and fighting barb warriors is rough. It does okay against barb spearmen. I haven't actually found a barb horseman to tangle with yet.

I think being a scout replacement (with the corresponding reduction in cost) would have made it a lot more worthwhile
 
Babylon definitely felt different than I expected. The playing around eurekas for me strips away what immersion is there and really exposes the board game underneath. Particularly when you have to avoid triggering eurekas so as not to push too far ahead...

I suspected there were some balance issues with them, but I expected their gameplay would feel a lot more exciting than it does to me...
 
Babylon definitely felt different than I expected. The playing around eurekas for me strips away what immersion is there and really exposes the board game underneath. Particularly when you have to avoid triggering eurekas so as not to push too far ahead...

I suspected there were some balance issues with them, but I expected their gameplay would feel a lot more exciting than it does to me...
Personally I like the plotting of eurekas--while it's "gamey" for me the theme is tied to the Babylonian astronomy--they are planning events many thousands of years ahead and calling the prophetic shots. This makes sense in a game that also allowed secretive religious cults (Secret Societies mode) and heroes of legend (from Heroes & Legends Mode).
 
After playing a game of Babylon, I have to say the Eureka jumping just makes me feel giddy - if they have to nerf Babylon they should not touch this. While I'm still debating if it really needs nerfing, if it was to be nerfed, I hope they just add another malus on top of the science one. For example a 20% production malus on units and buildings would potentially be a way to throttle their speed.

Or if they wanted to follow the religious connotations of Enuma Anu Enlil, they could just put a faith requirement in a city for it to really operate. Something like - 5 loyalty/turn for each district after the first one you have in cities that don't make at least 15 faith/turn. Though obviously that value is not even close to accurate, and it seems a bit verbose, so it would need to be cleaned up a bit.
 
. . . if they wanted to follow the religious connotations of Enuma Anu Enlil, they could just put a faith requirement in a city for it to really operate. Something like - 5 loyalty/turn for each district after the first one you have in cities that don't make at least 15 faith/turn. Though obviously that value is not even close to accurate, and it seems a bit verbose, so it would need to be cleaned up a bit.

How about: - 1 Loyalty/Turn for each point of Population in a Babylonian city not following a Religion?
 
Anyone else not feeling this civ at all? It feels really gimmicky and unreliable. It seems like you are locked into chasing eurekas, whether or not you really need them. It's like I have chains around me, I don't feel any freedom.

Leader ability: Free building is pretty cool, but circumstances of this game has me finally starting my first specialty district 78 turns in. I haven't built anything in my capital because I'm too busy making settlers, workers, and military units.

Civ ability: hey, I love the instant techs. But this is requiring an annoying consultation of the eureka requirements, to a micromanagement level. And the -50% science malus is straight up the worst malus in the game. I thought Mali had it bad, but this is a whole other level. Getting the ancient and classical techs is pretty easy, but now it feels pretty daunting from here on out.

Unique unit: pointless? I discovered iron working really fast, now I can get them upgraded to swordsmen if I want. They don't discover as good as scouts nor are they as cheap as them, and only are good against horses. No Sumeria in this game (who I just befriend ASAP anyways) and no horse barbarians, so what's the point?

Unique building: it's alright, good for starting a city, but my cities are going into negative amenities fast, so the growth bonus seems pointless.

So I can't say I'm liking Babylon. It seems like they could possibly be fun if you have a close neighbor (which I don't) and are able to unlock some great units to invade them (but there's the production/gold bottleneck). Feels like a more gimmicky challenge mode. Maybe others can appreciate them, but this is just not my style at all.

I feel just the opposite.

To me, Babylon has more options then any other civ, depending on which eureka path you choose, and which eurekas you hold off on. Pick a target and you can rocket there.

Well, not more options, really, I guess. That is inaccurate. But it feels like there are. Maybe because the beelining is so extraordinary.

I particularly like their ui, as it fits my play style perfectly (rapid growth).
 
After playing a game of Babylon, I have to say the Eureka jumping just makes me feel giddy - if they have to nerf Babylon they should not touch this. While I'm still debating if it really needs nerfing, if it was to be nerfed, I hope they just add another malus on top of the science one. For example a 20% production malus on units and buildings would potentially be a way to throttle their speed.

Or if they wanted to follow the religious connotations of Enuma Anu Enlil, they could just put a faith requirement in a city for it to really operate. Something like - 5 loyalty/turn for each district after the first one you have in cities that don't make at least 15 faith/turn. Though obviously that value is not even close to accurate, and it seems a bit verbose, so it would need to be cleaned up a bit.

I can't see that they'd remove it - it's fundamental to what makes the civ distinct.

I'm also not sure why it would need a nerf. In the midgame several eurekas are tied to civics or district buildings, so you're constrained to something approaching a normal pace unless you manage to take advantage of the early boost. That can be tricky given its dependence on specific map features - and even getting the slinger kill to get archery was difficult for me since once again the city-states mowed down any barbarians before I could finish them. By the nature of eurekas it's harder to plan a consistent early game strategy, which is the way you'll usually pull ahead early. Later on, the requirements to unlock resource access are often completely unrelated to those needed to unlock units - for instance there is nothing in common between the requirements needed to get access to oil and the musketmen needed for Replaceable Parts - so at least in my case I'm stuck with a bunch of infantry I can't build for some time.
 
I was hoping it would rip through barb camps as it explored, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

totally get what your saying. They're just too squishy VS normal melee. But still, almost same price as a scout, and then upgrades to swordsman, so they won't be only useful in the first 100 turns. I like them
 
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