Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Nov 12, 2020.
Thanks! That was fast!
I'm gonna try that my next run.
Well Babylon is turning out to be a fun ride, though I had to stop and work several hours today.
The map steered me towards military with 2 early militaristic CS suzerains (Valletta and Wolin), plus the Matterhorn nearby, plus a surprise DoW from Mongols. In desperation turned to Supernatural help with the Sanguine Pact and Mulan. Got enough gold for one crossbow, then one pike. Brutal defensive war but Genghis had no horse and in the end the barbs help me push toward Mongol cities which I promptly start to conquer as my vampire is getting to see lots of death and Mulan is one-shotting archers.
Wolin is amazing I got a GG just as Mulan decided to retire.
Valletta: Pulgum, walls, armory, which all trigger boosts bought with faith!
Key moments: getting mercenaries, promoting the second archer>xbow to trigger boost for Pike and shot.
Next time definitely going to nab Statue of Zeus ASAP. PIke and Shot is easy to unlock.
Yes, I'd have liked a cultural focus. But I'm still unconvinced Babylon is unbalanced - I just won at about the same time I usually do on Deity. Since you can pretty much forget researching techs in the early game, the eurekas are more a way of bypassing the constraints of linear progression through the tech tree than of actually getting you massively ahead - towards the end of the game I wasn't even the science leader in terms of number of techs.
I think Babylon is a strong all-round civ with no bad uniques (at that point I had my choice of win conditions, though I usually do - I was leading in science and domination and second in everything else save perhaps culture, where I may have been third. I'd wiped out two religions and held two capitals other than my own. At the end I had a higher overall score than I usually do, hitting rank 7), but I don't think it rises and falls on its eureka system. That's eye-catching but I think it's strong without it - the district buildings/envoys are powerful, the early water mill unique is excellent and as others have pointed out, the UU is basically a scout that upgrades into mainline melee units, which is generally going to be better than the scout line (Rangers are good but Spec Ops is a bit pointless, and every scout unit loses value once you've finished exploring).
That does make sense, but Babylon has been "the Tech civ" since CIV III, so it's kind of a franchise tradition.
Civ6 broke some traditions. I'm hoping Civ7 breaks more (Goodbye, Gandhi! Goodbye, Shaka! Hello, cultural Korea! Hello, cultural Assyria!).
Like I mentioned, they are a puzzle.
I know most don't but I like to do my scouting with Slingers, which is working out real well with Hammurabi. You can still clear a Barb Camp with just a Slinger if you approach so that you get the first shot at the Spearman and often you run into a stray Barb for the Eureka. If I've got excellent Gold, I will make several Slingers then upgrade them through the line to Crossbowmen; if I've got excellent Hammers, I get Archery ASAP and make one Slinger then Archers. The Archery Eureka or making an Archer is a frequently occurring City-State quest also, so bonus.
If you're going that route, you do have to be miserly with your Gold. If you could still sell Diplomatic Favor at a premium, this tactic would be preposterous; as it is it's just overwhelming. Sell off your luxuries and strategics for whatever bulk gold you can get. Sometimes you pick a fight just to pillage a Mine or bushwhack a trade route. Chop your Maize and Copper and Crabs.
I'm starting to get a feel for the triple-Mine start for the early Industrial Zone but following the Crossbowmen unit path. That second Crossbowman lets you build Pike and Shot, the IZ with a Workshop plus boosted Mines lets you build them at a decent pace and the combination of the two units eats most cities, even walled ones. It's not dependent on any strategic resources either, so you can sell any you happen upon.
The Palgum is great and I've started building them in any city I can. You recoup the hammers invested very quickly and the incidental food is amazing. That first one is 4 Era Score + Construction (often another Era Score) + the inspiration for Games and Rec.
I have not got Hammurabi figured out yet, but there's so much to work with there.
I don't know why people say this. Civ IV Babylon, the last time it was led by Hammurabi, had nothing to do with science - it was a culture and governance civ, exactly appropriate for that leader. The idea that it should be pigeonholed as a science civ seems to be a consequence of Civ V. Civ III Hammurabi had the scientific trait, sure - but he also had the Religious trait and no one seems to be insisting that Babylon be a religious civ.
And please separate Tech and Civic institutions more, put more "governance" mechanisms into Civics.
I'm glad you've come around on keeping Alexander.
Okay, I managed to recover the map while doing that - but even when I set the game difficulty to Deity in the menu the game as loaded ended up exactly as it was before, including reverting it to Prince difficulty. I entered both map and game seed - was that correct?
EDIT: Never mind. Just to be sure I reset the difficulty after setting the seeds (though it was showing as Deity originally) and I now have a Deity version for my next playthrough. First two turns are ... promising. Astrology, followed by Sailing for setting next to Crater Lake - and a tribal village granting me a scout.
Ignoring precedent from the game seires, I never really got why Babylon in particular is usually a science civ. If anything, I think they should be cultural, religious, and infrastructure based, kind of like Civ VI's Khmer. If the devs really want a science-focused ancient civ, I feel like they should do science-based Greece... but Greece is always cultural in civ!
I think they could have done worse than use the Babylon CS's unique ability, or a variant of it, as the civ ability - producing science from Great Works, so they actually promote cultural play while still getting the science bonus people seem to expect.
More like resigned myself that ♫ we are never ever ever ever getting rid of Alexander. ♫ /taylorswift
Gandhi is a staple leader of the Civilization franchise, Zaarin. Plus, in Civ 7, who will be the nuclear madman butt of our jokes?
This may come as a surprise to Firaxis, but 29 year old jokes aren't funny anymore. I mean, that joke is almost as old as I am. If they want a nuclear madman to lead India, how about Indira Gandhi?
I understand it may not be funny anymore. That's your opinion. However, in my opinion, no Civilization game is complete without a nuclear Gandhi rampaging through your lands and destroying every hint of joy in the world.
Pre-R&F I remember Gandhi exploiting the "joint wars aren't really wars" loophole, but since then I haven't seen him rampage--and I've literally never seen a nuke in any version of Civ. The real thief of joy in Civ6 is Dom Satan of Brazil.
Then Civ VI isn't complete, surely? The AI still never uses nuclear weapons and Gandhi is actually peaceful.
AI will use nuclear weapons, it is just the player often win the game before AI begin to build up a nuke stockpile, or AI waste all their uranium resources on GDRs.
They will add that, otherwise, I'll get Civ 1 Gandhi on the line...
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