Babylonians Seriously Nerfed

[Dactyl]

In GnK, the Babylonians are seriously nerfed. With the rearrangement of the tech tree, getting the Porcelain Tower and Notre Dame with a couple of GE's is no longer easy, taking away some of their tech advantage. In addition, their UU, the bowman, is now almost worthless, since the composite bowman is available with Construction. I used to like to play them, but no more.

 

[Louis XXIV]

So the Bowman is a regular Archer rather than a Composite Bow? It would have made sense to make it the latter.

You can still get GS faster and build Academies, so it's not a total loss.

 

[stealth_nsk]

And don't forget what free GP now increase the next GP cost now. On the other hand, Academies are much more powerful now and with RA and GS discovery now based on science output, this still makes Babylon good.

IMHO, Babylon was overpowered before. Looks more balanced now.

 

[WiseGreen]

Has anyone found out a formula for RA's and bulbing output already?

 

[MadDjinn]

Babylon is fine. What the OP seems to be sad about is the 'Liberty/HS/PT bulb-RA spam' plan that got wiped out.

Babylonian walls give a city +100 HP (vs normal walls +50). Bab. Archers are good enough that you don't need to run to construction right away. You'll also need more Academies now, and getting one for free + mass producing others easier = more of them faster.

they'll be fine.

 

[bhavv]

Looks like babylon are still very strong, but their OPness has been reduced.

Do you think that Sejong will now be the faster techer running a specialist economy? Especially since some of the faith buildings add even more specialist slots.

 

[MadDjinn]

Looks like babylon are still very strong, but their OPness has been reduced.

Do you think that Sejong will now be the faster techer running a specialist economy? Especially since some of the faith buildings add even more specialist slots.

It's a bit of a toss up. AI Sejong beats AI Babylon in tech (but not by a lot) due to the specialist bonus and the AI not 'quite' understanding 'focused' great people production (for babylon).

 

[bhavv]

With Sejong I focus on popping as many GPs as I can with multiple popping and settling them,, plus going for the Freedom finisher ASAP and building everything with a specialist slot. I manage to grab the Statue of Lib at around 1600 AD, and then every city fills every specialist slot for the rest of the game for godly science, happiness and production.

With Babylon I used to bulb bulb bulb, and then firaxis kept going nerf nerf nerf, so I gave up on playing them for a long time. Korea, Inca and Ramesses were my top 3 favorites, and Im sure that Maya are going to become one of my favorites too now.

Sejongs +2 science per specialist and GP tile improvement is just awesome though, and now Great Scientists are nerfed hugely to only give the average of your last 6 turns worth of research for a bulb, making me think that settling them is always going to be better.

 

[Zhahz]

Smoothing out "spikes" and reducing the OP nature of certain things in the game seems to be a common theme throughout G&K. I like it.

 

[Buccaneer]

Smoothing out "spikes" and reducing the OP nature of certain things in the game seems to be a common theme throughout G&K. I like it.

I agree, both spikes and dips too.

 

[Xger]

Has anyone found out a formula for RA's and bulbing output already?

The videos in the introductory guide say that GS bulb is sum of last eight turns of beakers.

RA is something like the ((average 1st partner number of beakers over past 30 turns)*30+(average 2nd partner number of beakers over past 30 turns)*30)*(50% or 75% or 100% depending on PT and rationalism policy). However, you can only get as much as you produced.

 

[MadDjinn]

The videos in the introductory guide say that GS bulb is sum of last eight turns of beakers.

RA is something like the ((average 1st partner number of beakers over past 30 turns)*30+(average 2nd partner number of beakers over past 30 turns)*30)*(50% or 75% or 100% depending on PT and rationalism policy). However, you can only get as much as you produced.

'tis a bit more complicated than that, as it also includes a /6 for each sides bpt, and something else.

averages out to being 5 turns for each sides bpt without % boosts (PT/Rationalism) give or take.

 

[Flaviusx]

Babylon was ridiculous in vanilla. Now they are merely competitive. I'm totally cool with these changes, as it was starting to get a little boring playing them. They were too easy.

 

[comatosedragon]

I also disagree with the OP. As a whole, I don't see how Babylon has been nerfed, for two simple gameplay mechanic changes:

1) Academy Science output is higher than before [8]
2) Since 'free' Great people now count against you, that 50% increase in GS's is more valuable.

In my book, they are still a top 5 Civilization.

 

[pspboy7]

Nerf seems to be a word people like to use when their favorite thing in a game has finally been balanced with the rest of the game, hehe