Back in love with CiV, still unable to have a good start

Deds

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11
Location
Rimini,Italy
Few days ago I read about Cit VI, why not playing again CiV?
I've played many hours on CiV on easy level, but I keep having a big problem:the first 50 turn.
Everytime I got a good expansion I found myself with weak military, if I focus more on my army I got few good spots..what I'm doing wrong?
I was reading here on the forum about having 4 cities by turn 40/50, how do you get this achievement?How do you defend the settlers?
What should my production queue be?What social politics?
Would some kind hearted player mind telling me what I'm not getting?
Thanks in advance and sorry for my English.:)
 
I'm aim for 3 cities around turn 50-60 or so. Get libraries going and get National College before turn 90.

Don't be distracted by wonders.

Go scout scout shrine (if the ground looks good) monument then settlers and an archer.

You can skip the archer if you bring back your warrior to defend.

Here's a great guilde.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=523371
 
I've started innumberable games. Played a bunch of them through.

And so far I think I've learned this.

You want a start with mining resources. If you get a start with calendar or trapping resources, just click restart over and over, till you get something with hammers.

The game is so different when you have early production. It's just not the same game as a jungle start with dye and spices. Or one of those tundra/ice starts with a lot of furs.

I know there is a prevailing attitude against this sort of thing, but I really don't care to put up with low production anymore.
 
You want a start with mining resources. If you get a start with calendar or trapping resources, just click restart over and over, till you get something with hammers.
With the exception of salt (starts with salt nearby are unequivocally better), I'm not so sure that mining resources are necessarily all *that* much better; the various luxes all have their pluses and minuses. Mining resources, for example, are great when you're building settlers (free gold!), but during the normal course of things they're often hard to work. (Counterpoint: once you research currency, you're often rolling in cash thanks to mints.) And if you get the right pantheon, trapping resources can all grant +1 food, plus trapping allows you to improve deer, which can be super helpful.


It's just not the same game as a jungle start with dye and spices.
Yeah, jungle starts can be challenging, but that's part of the fun of game. And jungle starts have the virtue that they're *amazing* once you build universities.

Or one of those tundra/ice starts with a lot of furs.
I have to agree with you on this. I know the better players can take a tundra start and defeat Deity difficulty anyways, but speaking for myself, I can't be bothered to fight against Tundra. A pox on the North!
 
My personal opininon on the lux distribution, almost ALL of them give gold with some exceptions so the actual luxuries aren't the problem, they are fairly even, it's the required techs and terrain they spawn on that makes the tiles so different:

Mining resources: great to settle on if hill/mining and also on your early tech path to forest chopping so connected quicker for trades or early gold to AI, but harder to work if you don't settle on them as they provide no growth. Exception: when you are building settlers. Because of this I find mining luxes even better if I'm expanding with liberty but not necessarily OP with tradition games where you are really only building 2 settlers in the capital, buying the 3rd, and then growing. What is more important is opportunity to grow in this scenario

Calendar Resources: slow to connect because not high priority on early tech path, this often means you get the gold or duplicate luxes from trading them later. Many people consider them terrible but I don't mind them. They often provide a 2 food 2 gold tile to work when you run out of other nearby things for some early gold meaning you have more above-average tiles to work and they synergize well with golden ages giving 4 gold each on the base tile and are actually workable early when growing. You have to give up a little growth to work them but at least you aren't losing food by doing so. Also they tend to cluster so starting near calendar resources often means you get more duplicate luxes. Lastly, the two special ones: citrus and cocoa, give bonus food to the base tile really buffing jungle starts in recent patches. I consider a cocoa/citrus/jungle start VERY good for fast science. You have poorer production, but there are usually some riverside hills to clear and it ends up working out since you can choose to settle an expo in a higher-production area.

Sea Luxuries: Very nice. I consider sea luxes one of the best starts. After lighthouse every one provides 3 food, some production AND gold. The only downside is to get them you have to give up some land tiles for coast. Whales in particular are bonus food so you grow fast with that lux. Very well-balanced. the tech is a little out of the way but if you start on the coast opening the sea techs for early cargo ship and lighthouses early is pretty optimal anyway.

Trapping Resources: furs, truffles, ivory - these are probably the worst in my opinion from a tech standpoint. Why? Because they are the furthest along the tech path. If you go for trapping early you divert from what I consider the optimal tech path for both liberty and tradition so usually they just sit there unimproved for longer and by the time they get connected the AI have usually traded away their first round of duplicate luxes to each other. However, there is one thing that counter-balances and makes these luxes OP: the +1 food from camps pantheon. It's a gamble, but I've had many a high-trapping start that turned amazing with this pantheon. Also, since they appear on forest there is a hidden bonus to these: they are 1 food, 1 production, gold tiles so they are workable and give your city early production and a forest tile to chop for a production boost. If the underlying terrain is grassland they become food-neutral like calendar resources, if plains the yield doesn't change. However, if tundra you can't afford to chop, another reason why tundra is harder because you can't afford to chop forest and get the early production boost.

On thing about tundra I haven't seen mentioned on this thread though is that the start balancer actually gives you more bonus resources to make up for being in poor terrain like tundra--same with desert and this is why flood-plain starts are broken because they aren't actually bad. This is why it is common in a tundra start to see like 5+ deer and river or something. As long as you start in forest with some growth tiles like this, tundra is not that hard to play for this reason. The downsides only really occur later in the game when your bonus tiles are all worked as the base terrain is poorer. Riverside tundra is 1 less food, etc. An upside of it is that usually only 1-2 players start near tundra so if it is you the Dance of Aurora pantheon is not that hard to get meaning a free religion with strong lategame faith income. I enjoy playing tundra for these reasons, it's different but not bad.
 
I've started innumberable games. Played a bunch of them through.

And so far I think I've learned this.

You want a start with mining resources. If you get a start with calendar or trapping resources, just click restart over and over, till you get something with hammers.

The game is so different when you have early production. It's just not the same game as a jungle start with dye and spices. Or one of those tundra/ice starts with a lot of furs.

I know there is a prevailing attitude against this sort of thing, but I really don't care to put up with low production anymore.

I wouldn't say there's a prevailing attitude against it, and even if some share that opinion, it is no one's business to tell you how to enjoy your game.

It sounds like you are strictly playing to have fun, so there's absolutely zero reason for you not to get what you consider to be a "good" start. At the same time, if you only ever play "good" starts you'll struggle when you do have to dig yourself out of a bad position.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it -- in the Civ IV HOF they had a script for people to generate hundreds of maps to play the best of starts.

You are aware that you can pick "Legendary Start" in the advanced game setup options, right? It's under Resources as Legendary Start. The rest of the game will play as normal but you'll get a top notch start. You may enjoy the game more.
 
Thanks for your help.
I've been playing a lot on this weekend..there's one problem: AI seems way too peaceful.
 
Thanks for your help.
I've been playing a lot on this weekend..there's one problem: AI seems way too peaceful.

The AI will be peaceful until you have wonders / land but don't have enough military units to defend it - then it will attack.

FYI, variables aside, I'd say play whatever start you're dealt (unless it's jungle or tundra). Go tradition. Build a scout and research writing. Build a shrine. Steal a worker and research mining. Build the great library.
 
I want to play without any mod once.
I just started one game, any advice on where to settle?
Spoiler :

 
Unless I'm missing something. You don't want to settle on the deer or any other resource because then you can't improve it.
 
I want to add something to this.

It can kind of be like you are in a holding pattern till you get an ideology sometime. You don't have the happiness to grow, to build another city, or even take a city from another civ.

If I research industrialization, and don't have any coal or any real chance to get some from a city state, a quick settler, or by taking another civ's city, a lot of times I'll just quit.

Don't really feel like waiting till I research enough to qualify.
 
^^^
If that's how you feel then I agree with what you earlier suggested for yourself: definitely up the difficulty! :)

...And that game you rolled has gotta be one of the best Aztec starts of all time with so many lake tiles! I'd settle in place from what I can see as you have marble, 2 wheat, dyes, and 2 deer in range and mountain. South has too many desert tiles for my taste. Make that a 2nd expo. Beeline Your floating gardens ASAP, you'll get loads of 4-food tiles way before civil service and your capital and 1st expo will be huge!
 
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