Back to immortal!

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hello CFC!

An average champion's league match, a PM from Mysty... and I am back to civ 4!

This a simple immortal game, with a 2 men roster (let's face it, it's better for now to keep fellow civers far from this trap - though feel free to lurk, and ).

Ramdom civ, fractal map, normal speed (no huts, no random events)...



and

Spoiler :

This is the starting location:



@Mysty: I will post comments in a few, feel free to move the scout and post yours... I suggest you play the first 15 (or so) turns before the week end so we can play a bit more then (I will be able to play mostly on week end )

Ras

 

[Rusten]

Pfft, cowards! Go deity or go home.

 

[mystyfly]

Comments, or, well ANYTHING as soon as I manage to launch civ without crashing

edit: Thanks to my lightning reflexes and a little trick I managed to snap the error messsage, displayed for a millisecond before crashing. Apparently "The save file you have selected is protected to ensure that the assets in your mod folder have not been changed". This doesn't refer to the CA folder in the BtS but must mean the Assets folder in Mods\Buffy. So I deleted it and reinstalled the proper version of Buffy, still same msg.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Pfft, cowards! Go deity or go home.

Gooding. That's the spirit!

Comments, or, well ANYTHING as soon as I manage to launch civ without crashing

well while you are fighting your computer, here are a few comments:

-> crappy cow start... heavy farming is to be expected.
-> looks like tundra south, so while we might enjoy early furs/silver, more crappy land and unbalanced territory (ie slightly heavier maintenance) are to be expected.
-> fractal has a tendancy to generate a lot of pangeas, or isolated starts (which could be somewhat hard )... at least the chances of being isolated with a religion less Monty are slim (but Rusten is praying for it I know )
-> scout nw -> nw to reveal land?

that's it for now, as expected, commenting a start after a 8/9 months break isn't easy...

 

[mystyfly]

well while you are fighting your computer, here are a few comments:

I edited my previous post with stuff about the problem I'm having. Do you have an idea what it's about?

-> crappy cow start... heavy farming is to be expected.

Agree hehe. What exactly did you mean by "cow 3 food start"? I kinda had another image in mind then

-> scout nw -> nw to reveal land?

Scout there if you're sold on SIP. If you want to see whether we could/should move the settler then scout N -> NE.


Feel free to go ahead with whatever you prefer.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

OK I am a noob, locked modified assets are on... I think you can't load it because you have other mods on (any graphical one?).

Rusten is rolling another one (preventing me from screwing up) to see if it works better for you...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Here is the new save, tell me if it works for u. Then I will upload pics. Tx Rusten.

 

[mystyfly]

Working for me. Thanks Rusten First thing I did was check to see whether it really is immortal

So QSH of China, very interesting. Not the kind of traits for my style of play Best possible starting techs though.

Settling W for PH bonus looks tempting but I doubt we'll gain anything apart from the improved city tile. SIP works for me. UGH all that brown land looks disgusting. No river, cows again - probably won't be too easy despite the diff level

Tech AH > BW?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Since Mysty can load the save, here is the starting location:



I would settle the PH indeed: start is brown (so crap long term), so we might as well have a nice early dynamic.

I would do AH yeah, but then maybe stop to see if there are horses in capital (or close enough). If yes maybe TW, otherwise BW yeah. Feel free to play tonight.

edit: I checked the level too, wouldn't have been the first lame joke from Rusten...

 

[mystyfly]

Sounds good. I should play tonight? Nah, gotta get up in 5-ish hrs... I'm heading to bed. If you want you can play, otherwise I'll play sometime tomorrow.

 

[mystyfly]

Aaaaaalright then!

Moved settler onto PH. Spot rice just outside the BFC but don't bother moving away from the cows for the worst food tile, unirrigated rice.



Met Charly on t14 (buddhist).

T15, AH > BW. No horses of course

Met Pacal on t30 (hindu yay ). Also met Shaka.

T31, BW in. No copper of course Has to be the worst starting location on the map, by a margin!

I stop here, mainly because we should distuss tech and settling.

I have NOT been able to locate ANY civ, despite getting out 3 scouting warriors very quickly (PH and double plains cows ). There is a nice choke point to the southwest with cows and fish (though in deep jungle) but I think Charly should be somewhere to the east, across that bay. I think we should settle in that direction, to cut the IMP leader off, there's nice land without jungle and good resources.

We have a good junk of land up north for a few coastal cities. BUT... where the hell are all the -resources?!? No gold/silver means we might have trouble with upkeep, only 1 early -resource (ivory) means HR is a priority.

As to immediate teching... (Myst is a placeholder) We need something to build apart from units, while we keep "growing". Since we're PRO this would work well with masonry/myst and one of the early wonders (I can't believe I'm suggesting this!). However we have a lot of land for barbs to spawn, no strategic resources so archery should also be considered... we don't even have hunting so that would mean we'll be building warriors/settlers/workers for a loooong time...

I left the worker unmoved.

The warrior up north should move a little closer to the cap before healing (so he helps more with fogbusting).

I have focused EPs on charly, I always focus on the first AI I meet.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Got it! I am having a look right now, I will post comments in a few. I like the early wonder idea (good early production in Beijing) ... but I hate Shaka

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Nice round! settler t31 is very nice! and another 1turn warrior, cool!


EPs: good choice, Charly might be the closet civ, and is agressive regarding spying iirc.

techs:
I see three possible paths
A the wheel (to hook up copper) -> fishing (to grab crabs near copper) -> mysticism -> pottery -> meditation -> priesthood -> writing -> COL (oracled)
B the wheel -> fishing -> mysticism -> pottery -> meditation -> priesthood -> writing -> monarchy (oracled)
C the wheel -> fishing -> mysticism -> pottery -> polytheism-> priesthood -> writing -> aesthetic (2 marble nearby, oracled)

In any case, the next 4 techs are the same... I would not go archery with copper so close (and the crab coupled with a quick road will boost our early commerce, which could be crippled by an archery detour)

Note the ivory in the south east, which could be used to grab some more land down the road.

I think we should grab that copper first to be safe on the barb front and to be able to rex efficiently (warriors are for fogbust imo, not fighting - I put signs on possible fogbust locations). The third city could go in the south east, I noted two possible sites if we choose to head that way. If we see Charly in the south west instead, we can always settle your choke point.

We could use the capital production on the Oracle after a worker/settler pair and a couple of warriors. What do you think?

possible positions for cities and fogbusting warriors:



I can't play before tmr. There is time for some

Ras

 

[mystyfly]

Interesting, I doubt I'd settle the copper site first but go for land grab. "Hope" there's is copper/horses in the fog between the site 2 you marked and the warrior. Your plan sounds fine though if we settle up there we should do fishing > wheel to start on WB asap. Which wonders specifically do you want to grab? Severely influences teching after that. I don't think planning more than 2-3 techs this early is reasonnable because so much can change.

Immediate decisions: Settler site up north is fine by me. I'd tech fishing > wheel, what about that? What early wonders do you want to build? Oracle would be sweet, likely the most useful. SH? Dirt cheap, even without IND. We have 2/3 civs starting w/ myst so we likely get failgold which isn't bad either. Mids would be fantastic on this map. If we want to try SH we should do myst immediately after fishing/wheel.

In any case, the next 4 techs are the same... I would not go archery with copper so close (and the crab coupled with a quick road will boost our early commerce, which could be crippled by an archery detour)

Good. Also, you forgot: Archery is for cowards

I think we should grab that copper first to be safe on the barb front and to be able to rex efficiently (warriors are for fogbust imo, not fighting - I put signs on possible fogbust locations). The third city could go in the south east, I noted two possible sites if we choose to head that way. If we see Charly in the south west instead, we can always settle your choke point.

Pretty sure I saw charly's scout from the east and pacal's from the west. Couldn't tell w/ shaka.


What about the warrior currently up north? I'd say move to the city spot, heal there, then move down south to help with FB which is more urgent/important there imo.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Yeah I like the Oracle too. Mids would be cool but is still really expensive without stone. I'd rather rex after a cheap wonder. The tech paths were drafted with the oracle in mind as you saw. SH meh, we are not celts seriously I'd rather not do mysticism now.

Fishing before the wheel makes sense (provided we go for the closest copper first ofc). I wouldn't take the risk to go far to search for a possible copper with a wonder in mind...

Going down with the northern warrior once the copper site is settled makes sense too.

 

[mystyfly]

Yeah I like the Oracle too. Mids would be cool but is still really expensive without stone. I'd rather rex after a cheap wonder. The tech paths were drafted with the oracle in mind as you saw. SH meh, we are not celts seriously I'd rather not do mysticism now.

Yeah you're probably right. Please excuse my lame attempt to somehow manufacture a CRE trait... I really should join Creative Anonymous someday...

Still, myst is pretty high priority... we'll want monuments and if we only build the oracle we have nothing to build for a long time (without gold/silver we have limited very early rex). In that perspective, SH would make sense or mids would fill the void in the production queue nicely.

Fishing before the wheel makes sense (provided we go for the closest copper first ofc). I wouldn't take the risk to go far to search for a possible copper with a wonder in mind...

According to my calculations, we should settle 2t before fishing is done. Take my calculation with a huge grain of salt though



If you can tell me a few hrs before you plan on playing I might be able to connect as well so you could do a few mini-sets if necessary.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Ok you convinced me SH might be a good idea...
so techs could be myst -> fishing -> TW. Capital can build another woker before myst is in and copper city work on a warrior waiting for fishing.

 

[mystyfly]

In this case, our current worker should mine the grass hill, then move north to start on copper. I don't think we should build another worker pre-myst since he'll have absolutely nothing to do. Better start on the second settler (we need that blocking city ASAP). I don't see the need to adopt slavery yet, do you?

Every time I see our capital I want to cry... It'll be absolute crap. Let's get ourselves another one

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

There are two grasslands to farm (with a chop) but that can wait since growth is slow. I will build some more warriors then. No slavery I agree for the same reason. Playing...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

OK SH is built in a far away land two turns into the set... I switch techs to fishing -> TW -> myst.