Back to SMAC after a long time..comparisons with Civ4...

[Elras]

Hi All,

Booted SMAC up for the first time in years last night and I thought I'd
share the experience and compare it to Civ4.

Ok, lets start this baby, patches in, CPU fixes in....game loads...with my
Yahoo widgets remaining on top (thou corrupted)..hey at least the
games starting so mustn't grumble.

Ah, the start screen, the voice...lets play a normal game, standard sized
planet and go at Specialist level...play as the Gaians (cause the picture
of Deirdre looks quite hot)...right we're rolling and we're down.

Ok I've landed, the screen's almost a complete black with a white grid
superimposed...my landing site plus a few squares is all I have for
company. The land's all red and has patches of weird 'wound' coloured
terrain which the computer tells me is xenofungus...I get scared.

*SLAP*

Snap outta it Soldier, this is new alien planet..it's supposed to be scary!

Ok, I have a base and a Scout. Hmmmm...How'd you move the
little basta...oh I see...draw a little green line and Mr Scout moves right
along with it...Right what tech areas do I want to concentrate in?

*shrug*

...I don't know..

hmmm..ok lets go with Discover and Power...lets go green with big sticks.

A few turns go by, I capture a few mind worms, ah the mind worm v
unit battle music....satisfying squelchy sound. Mr Scout and his
merry band search in all directions...so far no sign of anyone else.
Hello...we discover something called the Pholtus Ridge...sounds good.

I check back at base...and discover I've built 2 more Scout Infantry and
it's building a 3rd one!...Stop that...what else can we build?...Hmmm..."Formers"
right...I remember those...lets have a few of those.

A lot more turns go by, a build a few more bases, kill a staggering amount
of Mind Worms...what up with these fellas?...I'm +1 Planet dudes..your
supposed to LOVE me!...however the G'ah obstinately refuse to join me!

The Comm Link buzzes...it's The Hive!...no please, not the Hive...these guys are
always trouble...ok lets try and make friends...you want all my scientific discoveries
to date huh?....how about no fule! ..yeah...well bite me!...A truce? well ok.

A shedload more turns go by, I discover a ton of stuff that I have no idea
what to do with...I have Drone riots...I figure out that's Docters are *good*.

I keep trying to zoom out of see my growing terrority (like Civ4) but we're
isometric only here baby. Building bases is B, farming is F and Fortifying
is...is...*scratching head*....ah "Hold"...H.

Times passes with me building things for no other reason but to see what
they do...Child Creches, Recreation Rooms, Command Centers. I meet a
ton of other factions, make friends with Spartans, The Unis & the Peace
Keepers.. stand impassively as Miriam spits in my eye and calls me
heathen swine! ..Like I care, those nutballs are on the other side of the
world to me! Cuss away fules.

I even manage to find the social engineering screen and decide to go
Democratic-Green-Knowledge...don't really know what these do but hey
it's the kinda gals we Gaians are!

It is during this golden age, that the lovable Hive decide to declare Vendetta!
They attack my terrority with loads of spacesuited figures pushing shopping
trolleys..hah...have at you with my Mind Worms legions...pretty good...the
worms kick Hive butt!...Then my awesome stack of 2 Scout Rovers,
1 Impact Rover & Space Dude with Impact Shopping Trolley blitzkrieg
towards the THE HIVE base like a hedgehog swimming in treacle....many
*many* turns later the death stack finally arrives outside the base and
attack and.....are killed to a man/woman/person/thing .

I now have no attack units bar a few healing worms and a load of bases
garrisoned with Scout Infantry. Hmmm...the Chairmen moves a *. .. .. .. .* load
of shopping trolley pushing dudes towards one of my bases.

It is then I get a tech breakthrough...Doctrine: Flight...I can build jets!. All
my bases drop everything and start building Chaos Jets...after many more
turns, the tide of shopping trolley wielding Hive Men are turned back. Jets
fly like 10 squares and kill things with impunity!...What I'd give for something
like this in Civ4!

I group a pile of 8 Chaos Jets in a base nearest to Hive terrority and send them in a wave against THE HIVE base...bam! bam! bam! bam!...the jet's
are just as awesome against entenched defenders as blokes out in the open.
I blast the tar outta the defenders.

The Chairman comes on-line begging for a truce...not this time fule ...
this time...your going down!

The Jets + 1 Chaos Rover & a couple of Synmetal Infantry mop up all of
the HIVE's cities...and they have a lot of cities!..almost twice as many as
mine...but with the Jets & the the solitary Rover on the ground it's a breeze.
I now own the continent and the Hive are reduced to 2 sea based cities
far far outta the range of my Commando Chaos Jets.

and then I looked at the time...and it was 1.58am...time for bed.

SMAC's not too shabby even after all this time.

Cheers
Elras

 

[vyeh]

So which one do you like more, SMAC or Civ4?

 

[Elras]

So which one do you like more, SMAC or Civ4?

Does it always have to be this way..which one do I like more?

I like both Civ4 and SMAC.

Civ4 has a amazing UI. Simple, lean and yet you can do so
much with it. The zooming around, moving around your
empire is great. The Great People (I was pining for one of
these when trying to finish Special Projects in SMAC )
and promotion system.

SMAC has a great story, weird music and scary vibe thing
going for it. I like the way Research works, you aim in a
particular direction but don't control the exact Tech you
get..this is better than Civ4 as it's more random IMHO.

War with Jets is awesome This is blitzkrieg

The Mind Worm & PSI combat is also another element that
Civ4 could do with...combat not tied to combat strength but
mental strength...so even really hard units can fall to weaker
but mentally stronger units. There's not this element of risk
in Civ4 combat..the stronger unit nearly always wins

More SMAC playing tonight

Cheers
Elras

 

[Slaughter]

Man, talk about a rocky start! I returned to SMAC and chose the Gaians to begin, too. I even met Yang. And then, the Zak Monster comes and stomps Yang to the ground with his laser weapons! Good enough, I managed to build the Command Nexus, research Impact Guns and brought new resonance armor from Zak. I'm going to build my military and take on him as soon as I get some rovers.

 

[Elras]

Ok after a feverish 2 weeks of non stop SMAC playing...the itch has been
scratched...so...some post-itch analysis

Played around 8 games. (3 defeats, defeats as in swallowed whole by either a
Hive, Believer or Spartan military avalanche, and giving up.)

3 victories with the Greens (2 Transcend & 1 Domination)
1 with the University (Domination)
1 with the Peace Keepers (Domination)

Transcendent Thought 1
Once 1 faction takes out another, they turn into an unending tide sweeping
all before them. This tide is normally the Hive or Believers (as their the
most aggressive I guess) or sometimes the Spartans if they can tech up
to smash the Hive or Believers first.

This 'tide' effect can be harnessed by a human player however, to win a
easy domination victory. The human player techs and builds like crazy, keeps
a paltry force of 4 or so Impact Rovers & worms as defenders...eventually
the 'tide' faction will attack you...and this is when you steamroller them
...your tech will be superior, your industry better ..and you can roll them
up and onto an easy domination victory. My last three games were all like
this.

This is easy to do against the Hive & the Believers, slightly harder with a
Spartan tide and really really hard against a belligerent Peace Keeper one
with tech parity.

Transcendent Thought 2
The Morganites & the Uni...normally get squished early...I only saw 1 game
where the Uni was a major force..the Morganites however always
ALWAYS get squished

Transcendent Thought 3
It's real hard to defend against probe teams during an invasion...but against
the Hive or Believers this Tech stealing doesn't help them out as there
industry is so backwards that building these better units takes forever...and
not before they've been steam-rollered. (If fact stealing Tech might be a
detriment to them as they could be producing loads of older units far quicker)

Transcendent Thought 4
Air Power is king

Transcendent Thought 5
I'd personally love to see a Civ4 mod of SMAC. Not sure how they could
implement rising/lower sea levels, unit prototyping, mind worms, etc but
the way unit maintenance, happiness, pollution in Civ4 is handled is far
better.

Religions are not so bad either, you could bring in an Earth Religion (as a
starting point - in fact maybe give this for free to the Believers?) and then
have Planet inspired new religions from then on...the Gaians Green philosophy
is almost a religion anyway...maybe reduce the number of total religions to
3-4?

Transcendent Thought 6
The work and thought given to the SMAC Tech tree & quotes deserves a
round of applause. It's beautiful. The voicing for the quotes is
perfect too.

Transcendent Thought 7
The movie for the 'Dream Twister' is just AWESOME!

Transcendent Thought 8
Come on Firaxis..give us 'SMAC II: You Know it Makes Sense'

Cheers
Elras

 

[Lord Neil]

Come on Firaxis..give us 'SMAC II: You Know it Makes Sense'

Sid Meier has already said that he would love to make a SMAC II but the game was made by him and Brian Reynolds as a team so it isn't entirely Sid Meier's choice and also Brian Reynolds doesn't work with Sid anymore...

I want SMAC II

 

[beetle]

Having just lost a game, I am reminded that SMAC had hints for a sequel, returning to Earth after a hot war. Follows is the text when another faction transcend first.

Spoiler :

The cold-sleep unit finally cycles open and you stretch muscles rusty from decades of computer-managed disuse. But they are young muscles, shockingly young, and it will be a pleasure to beat them back into shape. Orbital insertion begins and you tingle with the excitement of your new mission and with the joy of having returned to human form. Yes, you left a copy of your personality among the Planetmind's giant matrix, but this copy, this human being [YOU] now waking to lead the first Seed mission, this is the only self now immediate to you and therefore the only real you. You are flesh again, and so quite mortal, and for this too you rejoice.

You despaired when Planet invited [THEM] to join its dominant self, and
for a decade or more you moped about the bizarre virtual reality of the Undermind with no coherent purpose, a lost spirit unable to die. But when the Seed missions began, the Voice/Planet personality herself sought you out in the abyss and convinced you to accept command of the Prodigal Son.

“[Earth-YOU], you are unfulfilled here and I have need of you. In ages to come I shall have need of allies, sister Minds, if I am to keep the flame of conscious thought from guttering out as the universe contracts or else expands to dust. Take with you the gift of life, the seeds of all our species. Spread them to the stars, across the galaxies, creating new civilizations, new minds, and enlisting the aid of any you encounter. Go forth, Earth-[YOU]. Go forth and multiply.”

The maneuver at last complete, the safety shutters retract from the viewport and you behold a sight lost to human eyes for over [X] centuries. Deep blues, swirling whites, the azure tint of a rich oxygen atmosphere. Inviting browns and greens of continents basking in the sun, a few scattered impact craters the only visible signs of a war now buried in the aeons. Third planet. Earth. Home.

 

[Lord Neil]

Having just lost a game, I am reminded that SMAC had hints for a sequel, returning to Earth after a hot war. Follows is the text when another faction transcend first.

Spoiler :

The cold-sleep unit finally cycles open and you stretch muscles rusty from decades of computer-managed disuse. But they are young muscles, shockingly young, and it will be a pleasure to beat them back into shape. Orbital insertion begins and you tingle with the excitement of your new mission and with the joy of having returned to human form. Yes, you left a copy of your personality among the Planetmind's giant matrix, but this copy, this human being [YOU] now waking to lead the first Seed mission, this is the only self now immediate to you and therefore the only real you. You are flesh again, and so quite mortal, and for this too you rejoice.

You despaired when Planet invited [THEM] to join its dominant self, and
for a decade or more you moped about the bizarre virtual reality of the Undermind with no coherent purpose, a lost spirit unable to die. But when the Seed missions began, the Voice/Planet personality herself sought you out in the abyss and convinced you to accept command of the Prodigal Son.

“[Earth-YOU], you are unfulfilled here and I have need of you. In ages to come I shall have need of allies, sister Minds, if I am to keep the flame of conscious thought from guttering out as the universe contracts or else expands to dust. Take with you the gift of life, the seeds of all our species. Spread them to the stars, across the galaxies, creating new civilizations, new minds, and enlisting the aid of any you encounter. Go forth, Earth-[YOU]. Go forth and multiply.”

The maneuver at last complete, the safety shutters retract from the viewport and you behold a sight lost to human eyes for over [X] centuries. Deep blues, swirling whites, the azure tint of a rich oxygen atmosphere. Inviting browns and greens of continents basking in the sun, a few scattered impact craters the only visible signs of a war now buried in the aeons. Third planet. Earth. Home.

Nice find. That is very interesting... maybe for Civ V(hoping) Sid could make a deal with the other people that owns the rights to SMAC then CIV V could go alot longer(maybe 500 years longer) and have almost always full out nuclear war(option to turn off?) then afterwards a faction(at random? or maybe always same one) would land on earth at a random point.