Back to Square One with Darius

[iggymnrr]

I've always wanted to try a forum assisted game but prefer to play with a definite goal in mind. This usually means a GOTM or HoF where one has to wait until game's end for comments. Recently I decided to play a game at the level where I first started: monarch, normal speed. This wasn't meant to be any old return. Darius' immortals had to be unleashed in a rainforest. There was also one other requirement: a capitol with a 3-food city center. Some starts in a rainforest can have tons of food like 8 pigs or 7 rice. Why not aim for the obvious tile center for the capitol? This start looked promising:



The rice next to the deer was settled as per requirements and animal husbandry dutifully teched. Unfortunately I do not have all the game saves any more so had to replay to the point where a certain resource appeared on the map:



Barbs are off and two extra opponents have been added. How would you develope from here given the immortal mandate to claim "earth and water" from at least one AI? I can perhaps do recap at 1 AD, 1000 AD and game's end. The BC's will be busy!

(The 10-turn worker has been fortified in the city for the screenshot.)

 

[huerfanista]

Settle S of the horse for insta-connect to the capital, it can use the rice for food and horses for hammers. Its main purpose is simply to connect the horse and contribute a couple of immortals. Start a rax after the warrior in the capital, settler at size 3, another worker after that, then * immortals. Without many forests you'll have to rely on the whip a lot. Wheel> BW after mining is done.

 

[iggymnrr]

Settle S of the horse for insta-connect to the capital...

While deciding where to settle, Mansa will be discovered due west and Washington due north ...

I checked my own game log. Opening tech path was fishing->AH->mining (misclick)->AH->mining->mining popped->BW->wheel. As it was in vanilla, huts were on and random events off. I decided to try the fishing gambit, my favorite rainforest tactic, hoping to get sailing from a hut. Ended up with 2 more scouts and mining. At least a scout discovered Washington and the warrior dispatched to collect a worker from him.

Still, how to settle? I will update later from the 1 AD save.

 

[obsolete]

Why in God's name would you think on teching fishing with Darius at the start. ESPECIALLY with no coast? Makes absolutely no sense.

 

[iggymnrr]

Why in God's name would you think on teching fishing with Darius at the start. ESPECIALLY with no coast? Makes absolutely no sense.

Not much sense. But if an AI is on the same river and sailing does come in ... I won't need iron working for a long while.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I can see going for fishing then sailing... but not at first.

To be honest, though, IW is a huge priority on a rain forest map, since it's basically all jungle. Right now, wherever you put the site near the horses is going to be a pretty good production site, but one of the prime sources of hammers is a hill you cannot improve without IW.

 

[obsolete]

Not much sense. But if an AI is on the same river and sailing does come in ... I won't need iron working for a long while.

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[iggymnrr]

I'll have an update in a bit. I guess my thinking on rainforests is to develop non-jungle cities first. AI capitols are jungle-free and rivers often connect everyone. Since I plan on being in AI capitol(s) early and the worker would not be starved for employment, the fishing gambit looked attractive. Alas, early sailing was not to be. I still have Darius.

 

[huerfanista]

Not much sense. But if an AI is on the same river and sailing does come in ... I won't need iron working for a long while.

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While I understand wanting sailing for connecting the capitals that you're planning on conquering (I'll take your assertion about the abundance of rivers on this map type as a given, even though I have no experience with it), it seems like a big gamble to count on popping it from a hut, especially when speed is all-important for an early rush. And I have to admit that I have no idea what your iron working comment is about - you do realize that you don't need IW to build roads through jungle, don't you?

EDIT: Also, you better have either pottery or writing (preferably both) before you launch your attack or you'll have a very difficult time recovering your economy.

 

[DMOC]

While deciding where to settle, Mansa will be discovered due west and Washington due north ...

I checked my own game log. Opening tech path was fishing->AH->mining (misclick)->AH->mining->mining popped->BW->wheel. As it was in vanilla, huts were on and random events off. I decided to try the fishing gambit, my favorite rainforest tactic, hoping to get sailing from a hut. Ended up with 2 more scouts and mining. At least a scout discovered Washington and the warrior dispatched to collect a worker from him.

Still, how to settle? I will update later from the 1 AD save.

Wait, I'm curious. You researched Fishing first, but then at turn 11 you're researching Mining? Fishing doesn't take that long on normal speed.

 

[iggymnrr]

Wait, I'm curious. You researched Fishing first, but then at turn 11 you're researching Mining? Fishing doesn't take that long on normal speed.

I am often confused. It's contagious. I no longer have any saves between 4000 BC and 1 AD. The screenshot was taken after replaying 11 turns for the purpose of showing horse.

Piecing the game back together, the speed at which settlers could be produced could not be discounted. Two cities were founded, one exactly where huerfanista suggested. The other near marble.

(All screenshots are from the 1 AD save.)

Spoiler :

All three cities built immortals, another worker built and one stolen from Washington arrived to help build a road to Mansa. No barracks was built.

Question: how many units does a city have to build to make a barracks worthwhile?

Tech path after the wheel was writing->masonry and then mysticism->polytheism->priesthood->mathematics->CoL. Writing was necessary for scouting out the AI, math will eventually be used in trade for alphabet. Mansa also had a tree city. I have marble and CoL is sensible. I wasn't playing for the Oracle yet, but kept an eye on it. With 3 cities that can play tag-team, who knows?

Mid-1500's BC, as math came in, I struck Mansa.

Spoiler :

One immortal nabbed a worker on top of Djenne's copper, another nabbed a worker outside Timbuktu while the main body (5ish) crossed the river. Mansa was dead in ~4 turns. Djenne had a number of forests and put the GL in the back of my mind. Gandhi was Hindu and looking to be locked in for ~3 cities, a likely shooin for the AP. This would prompt me to eventually go Hindu and OR. I was not through with the AI yet.

To be continued...

 

[huerfanista]

Care to post the 4000BC autosave?

 

[iggymnrr]

Care to post the 4000BC autosave?

No problem. In about a week, all 4 submitted saves will be published and available. Buffy mod is required.

The Second Satrap

In the year 1080 BC a horde of ~10 immortals was preparing to hit Washington's capitol, New York. (A chap by the name of Lincoln had stolen Washington's namesake.) CoL was 1 turn away from completion. News soon arrived that Persepolis had completed a great work. Oracle->CS. A great scientist also appeared in the capitol to commemorate the event with an academy. Encouraged by the news, the horde galloped on New York in a declaration of hostility. An archer, sword and spear stared them down. The battle cry went out, "Charge!"

Half the horde ascended to the great glue factory in the sky, but the other half celebrated inside the new city.

Tech path: pottery->part research alphabet->trade mathematics and something for alphabet->backfill: archery, iron working, monotheism. Civics change: bureaucracy/OR. New tech path: aesthetics->literature.

Spoiler :

Reinforcements arrived and Washington's remaining cities of Boston and Atlanta were taken as aesthetics came in. A missionary from India prompted Darius to bow before the great Hindu god and adopt that faith. "Whatever that is," he muttered to himself after the missionary departed. He now had the tools he needed for a full scale REX. His goal was ~24 cities. But the BCs were not yet over.

To be continued ...

 

[nishant1911]

i'm sorry i couldn't understand the goal . fastest win?

 

[hexem3117]

I didn't know deer pop up in the jungle...Is that normal?

 

[DMOC]

This is a map scrpit not often played around the strategy and tips forum (rainforest?) so I imagine it's possible there.

By the way can we see the scoreboard?

 

[obsolete]

Tech path after the wheel was writing->masonry and then mysticism->

It is becoming apparent you are not familiar with the basics of tech discounts, amoung other things...

 

[huerfanista]

I fired up a game with Darius using the rainforest map script yesterday, and I can tell you that the AIs don't handle a jungle-heavy map well at all.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

that's not the weirdest thing on this script - you'll see rice in jungle on a hill.

As for a rax - I'm not sure it's a good idea if you are going to rush someone. Sure, the promotions are nice, but you are making immortals for a rush, right? 25 hammers a pop.

You can get 2 immortals out in the time it takes to build the rax, and since they can't get CR promo's, all they'll be is 10% better. In that time, the AI can build another archer or two.

For an early rush, speed is key. I'd say no raxes.

For an aggressive civ, the math might be different. But i'd be interested to hear what other's say.

 

[pi-r8]

I'm really curious about this fishing -> sailing gambit. What benefit could that possibly give you... the only thing I can think of is a quick trade for a health resource to fight the jungle unhealthiness, but that's reaaaally a stretch.