Zardnaar
Deity
Always a sucker for tanks and military aircraft.
[RD] Backpacking Việt Nam (2019)
- Thread starter warpus
- Start date
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I guess we left lots of "souvenirs" behind.
Zardnaar
Deity
Just watched a video on it yesterday.
They inherited several billion dollars of USA toys.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I bet those who geek out on military tech and gear would have found this fascinating. I mean, it was interesting for me as well, but if you happen to be knowledgeable on the military tech from that era, and know a lot about it, it would probably be super interesting to walk around and inspect all these planes, tanks, artillery units, etc. For me it was more like curiosity, as I don't really know a lot about which model this plane or tank was or whatever, and had to look it up.
Here's some excerpts from the March 29, 1975 issue of the New York Times:
SAIGON, South Vietnam, March 28—The South Vietnamese have lost more than $1‐billion in American military weapons and other equipment over the last two weeks, according to qualified Vietnamese sources.
The abandonment of hundreds of artillery pieces, trucks, planes, mortars, tanks, armored personnel carriers, rifles and ammunition—coupled with the rapid retreat of army units—is viewed by Vietnamese and Western sources as a stunning and, quite possibly irreversible military and psychological blow for South Vietnam.
A senior Western official, who has spent more than a decade in South Vietnam, said today: “These losses are very, very, very considerable. It's a catastrophic loss.”
Another informed Western source said: “We've made no attempt to quantify the loss, but it's staggering. The equipment has not been saved at all and we're facing a devastating failure.”
An informed Vietnamese said that the armed forces logistics command, which controls the inventory of all military equipment, had made a tentative estimate of at least $1‐billion in equipment losses—virtually all of it left over by the Americans — as a result of the Government's abrupt decision to abandon two‐thirds of the nation and the hasty, panicky exodus of civilians and troops that followed.
Full article here
Here's some excerpts from the March 29, 1975 issue of the New York Times:
SAIGON, South Vietnam, March 28—The South Vietnamese have lost more than $1‐billion in American military weapons and other equipment over the last two weeks, according to qualified Vietnamese sources.
The abandonment of hundreds of artillery pieces, trucks, planes, mortars, tanks, armored personnel carriers, rifles and ammunition—coupled with the rapid retreat of army units—is viewed by Vietnamese and Western sources as a stunning and, quite possibly irreversible military and psychological blow for South Vietnam.
A senior Western official, who has spent more than a decade in South Vietnam, said today: “These losses are very, very, very considerable. It's a catastrophic loss.”
Another informed Western source said: “We've made no attempt to quantify the loss, but it's staggering. The equipment has not been saved at all and we're facing a devastating failure.”
An informed Vietnamese said that the armed forces logistics command, which controls the inventory of all military equipment, had made a tentative estimate of at least $1‐billion in equipment losses—virtually all of it left over by the Americans — as a result of the Government's abrupt decision to abandon two‐thirds of the nation and the hasty, panicky exodus of civilians and troops that followed.
Full article here
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
You can read about this tribunal in more depth here. From what I understand the findings of this tribunal (also known as the International War Crimes Tribunal) were largely ignored in the United States at the time.
It should be noted that both sides in this conflict, including the South Vietnamese government and the Viet Cong, engaged in war crimes. What struck me the most here though were the photographs I saw of napalm and other chemical bomb victims, including many children.. And no doubt the museum is designed to affect your emotions.. as any museum focusing on a brutal set of conflicts should.. but it should also be noted that the use of napalm on civilians was not deemed a war crime until 1980. Which just by looking at the photographs of the results seemed like pure insanity to me..
The brutal imagery on display at the exhibits left me feeling pretty empty inside.. I felt it was important to see it, and in the end a message of hope and peace was a welcome one.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Bùi Viện Walking Street
After checking out of my room I left my bags behind at the hotel and returned one last time to Bùi Viện walking street. This is a wild & loud part of the city that attracts backpackers and other tourists, with many shops, restaurants, bars, and other establishments, as well as street vendors and entertainers.. not to mention occasional carts, motorcycles, and even cars. This street is usually packed with people and technically cars are not allowed here, but I personally witnessed one driving slowly through the crowd during my visit..
I had been here before, but it was during the day and I did not end up taking any pictures. I had some time before my flight still, so I decided to walk here one last time to take it all in.
You don't really get a good sense of how busy this place gets in these photos, but I do have a video which chronicles my walk from one end of the street to the other that that I'll be posting later.
After checking out of my room I left my bags behind at the hotel and returned one last time to Bùi Viện walking street. This is a wild & loud part of the city that attracts backpackers and other tourists, with many shops, restaurants, bars, and other establishments, as well as street vendors and entertainers.. not to mention occasional carts, motorcycles, and even cars. This street is usually packed with people and technically cars are not allowed here, but I personally witnessed one driving slowly through the crowd during my visit..
I had been here before, but it was during the day and I did not end up taking any pictures. I had some time before my flight still, so I decided to walk here one last time to take it all in.
You don't really get a good sense of how busy this place gets in these photos, but I do have a video which chronicles my walk from one end of the street to the other that that I'll be posting later.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Here's a video of the walk from one end of the street to the other. It was a social media live video I've been able to download, so unfortunately it is vertical. The quality also isn't great, as I think FB has downgraded the video during download..
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Odds and Ends
On the way back to the hotel I stopped by Bến Thành Market in order to pick up one last souvenir, since I had some local currency left in my wallet that I was looking to offload before my flight back home. I walked around the various stalls and the only thing that really caught my eye was a vendor selling Nón Lá hats, in the west known as Asian conical or rice hats.
I didn't have enough money in my wallet for the quoted price, since some of the cash was reserved for the taxi ride to the airport.. However, I had not yet haggled on my trip at all, mainly because I just don't really care and don't mind contributing to the local economy, given that the prices were very low by western standards to begin with.. I also dislike the hassle and dislike shopping in general, so as far as I'm concerned the sooner the exchange is over, the better.
Haggling is a part of Vietnamese culture though and I did want to at some point haggle in order to test my skills and participate in this aspect of Vietnamese life. A part of travel for me is throwing myself outside of my comfort zone and dealing with the fallout.. within reason.. and this was going to be one of those times. I had some experience haggling in Peru, Thailand, Cambodia, and Nepal, but haggling etiquette is slightly different depending on where you go.. and to an outsider it might all look the same, but the underlying dynamics and expectations can vary.
Earlier on in the day I had set aside the money I would need for the taxi ride to the airport and put it in another pocket, to help facilitate the upcoming haggling engagement. I then began to walk towards the stall I was interested in, but made a point to check out every stall along the way, casually glancing at the wares. When I made it to my target stall I stopped very briefly to glance at the hats, as if they had caught my eye. I casually eyed them up and down, then turned away and continued walking to the next stall. It did not take long for the vendor to engage me in an attempt to convince me that the hats were great and that I should buy one.
I was asked if any of them look interesting to me and presented with a stack to look through, so I could select one I like. Now, I know from experience that the first person to name the price is at an immediate disadvantage, so I played dumb and acted curious but slightly disinterested, eventually asking what the vendor what one of these would cost. When the quoted price came up I said that I did not have enough money, that it was too expensive, and handed the hats back to her and turned to walk towards the next stall. I was of course stopped and asked what I think a fair price would be. I could have probably gone lower but I ended up going with a price 40% lower than the initial ask.
This dance continued for a couple more minutes until eventually I told the vendor that I'm just not interested and began to walk away again. Finally I heard what I'd been waiting for: "Okay, your price!". I quoted the 40% discounted rate again and we shook on it. I picked out my hat of choice, paid, thanked the vendor, and walked back to the hotel to pick up my bags and secure some taxi transportation to the airport.
I'm pretty sure the vendor made a profit on the hat even with that discount.. and this is not even a hat I can really wear here in the west, where something like that would likely lead to accusations of racism or cultural appropriation. In Vietnam these hats are worn by both locals and tourists and you pretty much see them everywhere.. So I ended up with something I could not really wear, but.. I was happy with my haggling experience and hoped that the vendor had a good time too.
At the airport I found an overpriced phở stall that nevertheless looked pretty appetizing from a distance. I ordered a big bowl of wagyu beef phở, my final meal in the country. It actually ended up being pretty good; probably one of the better meals I've ever had at an airport.
The Australian couple in front of me in the line that took us through security was not having a good day. They apparently did not realize that they needed their visas for inspection on their way out of the country. This is needed because the visa details your exact point and day of departure. I had all my documents ready and was eventually waved forward to bypass the Australians while they continued to look through their bags. I presented my documents to the stern looking uniformed man behind the counter and eventually heard the satisfying sound of a stamp. It didn't take me long to locate my departure gate.. but there were still about two hours to go, and it seemed that the plane was delayed as well, so I walked around a bit and found a little lounge area with comfy seats, where I could lie back and rest a bit.
My flight was going to take me to the Incheon airport near Seoul, South Korea, where I had an 8 hour layover. At this point in time I had not slept for about 24 hours, had a 5+ hour long flight to South Korea ahead of me, then 8 hours of waiting for the next flight, then a 15 hour long flight to Toronto, then about an hour of waiting there, then a 2 hour long bus ride to my home town.. and then a 30 minute long city bus ride home.
When we touched down in South Korea I was tired to say the least.. I had not slept the whole night and it was already almost noon. My last day in Vietnam was also an especially hot and humid one, and I checked out of my hotel early and was not able to shower before the flight.
It turns out that the Incheon airport is one of the best airports on the planet for layovers. I found a lounge for passengers who were waiting for connecting flights, which among other things included a free shower! This was a gamechanger for me! Instead of feeling tired and icky I was able to jump into that shower like an excited child and took a nice long hot shower. After that I lied down in one of the comfy reclining leather seats, insulated from the rest of the airport, and took a brief nap.
I don't think I really slept, although it's hard to say as I was sort of coming in and out of consciousness. I was pretty damn tired. What eventually got me up was my stomach complaining a bit. And so I got up and began to look for something to eat.
Another great thing about this airport were all the food options. During my 8 hour long stay I ate a pretty good burger at a Japanese Mos Burger chain, a taco at taco bell, and from what I could tell fairly authentic tonkatsu.
If you're wondering why I would bother with taco bell.. It's the only eatery I could find that did not play kpop. I needed to get away from all that noise, as it was hurting my ears and my brain.
Eventually it was time to get myself closer to the departure gate, which is when I came across an interesting procession.
I don't think I slept much on the 15 hour long flight to Toronto either. By the time I arrived back at home I was so tired I couldn't even fall asleep.
I was fine with all that though. This was a trip I will never forget. I really enjoyed the time I spent backpacking through Vietnam and I plan to return at some point in the future.
I would like to thank everybody who followed along and those who engaged by posting as well. I do have a couple more things to post that were missed along the way, but I'm not sure when I'm going to be able to get to them, as I now have to prepare for a week long camping trip. You can expect a couple more posts in about 2 weeks time, if not a bit sooner than that.
On the way back to the hotel I stopped by Bến Thành Market in order to pick up one last souvenir, since I had some local currency left in my wallet that I was looking to offload before my flight back home. I walked around the various stalls and the only thing that really caught my eye was a vendor selling Nón Lá hats, in the west known as Asian conical or rice hats.
I didn't have enough money in my wallet for the quoted price, since some of the cash was reserved for the taxi ride to the airport.. However, I had not yet haggled on my trip at all, mainly because I just don't really care and don't mind contributing to the local economy, given that the prices were very low by western standards to begin with.. I also dislike the hassle and dislike shopping in general, so as far as I'm concerned the sooner the exchange is over, the better.
Haggling is a part of Vietnamese culture though and I did want to at some point haggle in order to test my skills and participate in this aspect of Vietnamese life. A part of travel for me is throwing myself outside of my comfort zone and dealing with the fallout.. within reason.. and this was going to be one of those times. I had some experience haggling in Peru, Thailand, Cambodia, and Nepal, but haggling etiquette is slightly different depending on where you go.. and to an outsider it might all look the same, but the underlying dynamics and expectations can vary.
Earlier on in the day I had set aside the money I would need for the taxi ride to the airport and put it in another pocket, to help facilitate the upcoming haggling engagement. I then began to walk towards the stall I was interested in, but made a point to check out every stall along the way, casually glancing at the wares. When I made it to my target stall I stopped very briefly to glance at the hats, as if they had caught my eye. I casually eyed them up and down, then turned away and continued walking to the next stall. It did not take long for the vendor to engage me in an attempt to convince me that the hats were great and that I should buy one.
I was asked if any of them look interesting to me and presented with a stack to look through, so I could select one I like. Now, I know from experience that the first person to name the price is at an immediate disadvantage, so I played dumb and acted curious but slightly disinterested, eventually asking what the vendor what one of these would cost. When the quoted price came up I said that I did not have enough money, that it was too expensive, and handed the hats back to her and turned to walk towards the next stall. I was of course stopped and asked what I think a fair price would be. I could have probably gone lower but I ended up going with a price 40% lower than the initial ask.
This dance continued for a couple more minutes until eventually I told the vendor that I'm just not interested and began to walk away again. Finally I heard what I'd been waiting for: "Okay, your price!". I quoted the 40% discounted rate again and we shook on it. I picked out my hat of choice, paid, thanked the vendor, and walked back to the hotel to pick up my bags and secure some taxi transportation to the airport.
I'm pretty sure the vendor made a profit on the hat even with that discount.. and this is not even a hat I can really wear here in the west, where something like that would likely lead to accusations of racism or cultural appropriation. In Vietnam these hats are worn by both locals and tourists and you pretty much see them everywhere.. So I ended up with something I could not really wear, but.. I was happy with my haggling experience and hoped that the vendor had a good time too.
At the airport I found an overpriced phở stall that nevertheless looked pretty appetizing from a distance. I ordered a big bowl of wagyu beef phở, my final meal in the country. It actually ended up being pretty good; probably one of the better meals I've ever had at an airport.
The Australian couple in front of me in the line that took us through security was not having a good day. They apparently did not realize that they needed their visas for inspection on their way out of the country. This is needed because the visa details your exact point and day of departure. I had all my documents ready and was eventually waved forward to bypass the Australians while they continued to look through their bags. I presented my documents to the stern looking uniformed man behind the counter and eventually heard the satisfying sound of a stamp. It didn't take me long to locate my departure gate.. but there were still about two hours to go, and it seemed that the plane was delayed as well, so I walked around a bit and found a little lounge area with comfy seats, where I could lie back and rest a bit.
My flight was going to take me to the Incheon airport near Seoul, South Korea, where I had an 8 hour layover. At this point in time I had not slept for about 24 hours, had a 5+ hour long flight to South Korea ahead of me, then 8 hours of waiting for the next flight, then a 15 hour long flight to Toronto, then about an hour of waiting there, then a 2 hour long bus ride to my home town.. and then a 30 minute long city bus ride home.
When we touched down in South Korea I was tired to say the least.. I had not slept the whole night and it was already almost noon. My last day in Vietnam was also an especially hot and humid one, and I checked out of my hotel early and was not able to shower before the flight.
It turns out that the Incheon airport is one of the best airports on the planet for layovers. I found a lounge for passengers who were waiting for connecting flights, which among other things included a free shower! This was a gamechanger for me! Instead of feeling tired and icky I was able to jump into that shower like an excited child and took a nice long hot shower. After that I lied down in one of the comfy reclining leather seats, insulated from the rest of the airport, and took a brief nap.
I don't think I really slept, although it's hard to say as I was sort of coming in and out of consciousness. I was pretty damn tired. What eventually got me up was my stomach complaining a bit. And so I got up and began to look for something to eat.
Another great thing about this airport were all the food options. During my 8 hour long stay I ate a pretty good burger at a Japanese Mos Burger chain, a taco at taco bell, and from what I could tell fairly authentic tonkatsu.
If you're wondering why I would bother with taco bell.. It's the only eatery I could find that did not play kpop. I needed to get away from all that noise, as it was hurting my ears and my brain.
Eventually it was time to get myself closer to the departure gate, which is when I came across an interesting procession.
I don't think I slept much on the 15 hour long flight to Toronto either. By the time I arrived back at home I was so tired I couldn't even fall asleep.
I was fine with all that though. This was a trip I will never forget. I really enjoyed the time I spent backpacking through Vietnam and I plan to return at some point in the future.
I would like to thank everybody who followed along and those who engaged by posting as well. I do have a couple more things to post that were missed along the way, but I'm not sure when I'm going to be able to get to them, as I now have to prepare for a week long camping trip. You can expect a couple more posts in about 2 weeks time, if not a bit sooner than that.
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Wonderful thread! 
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Do they still force you to transfers your money into dong using the official rates ?
Should have held onto US currency as much as possible to use instead. Local currency is pretty worthless and overvalued it far better to hold onto and use US dollars instead.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I used ATM bank teller machines to withdraw dong right out of my Canadian bank account. I also brought some with me, so that when I landed I already had dong in my pocket. The rate I got in Canada seemed about similar to the rates I was getting withdrawing from ATMs in Vietnam, although I was eyeing it and did not do any math. Not sure how it compares to the official rate either, sorry!
This is how I usually travel, because it means that I do not have to interact with any businesses or individuals that exchange your money. There can often be scams and ripoffs associated with that, and while my bank rips me off all the time, at least I know what to expect. I don't want to have to waste time researching local money exchange scams, and then being anxious about finding the right merchant or whatever. The only time I remember exchanging money at a money exchange place was in Hong Kong. From what I remember that might have been the only way.. or the ATM method was a lot more expensive in that case.. or something.. So I did the research, figured out how to recognize a reputable exchange business (in HK that's not that hard to figure out really), etc.
Sometimes that means a higher rate or fee, sometimes it works out in my favour. On this trip I have no idea, but the amount of dong I was getting seemed reasonable at a glance. I don't mind paying a small overhead for the convenience and ease of mind either.
Not all ATM machines always work (due to incompatibility problems between the banks), but even in Nepal about 50% of them did. In Vietnam I don't remember having any problems at all.
I actually did bring back some souvenir dong with me! I sort of tried to strategically spend my dong so that I would have just one of each bills left over at the end. I can't even remember if that ended up working out or not, but I it's now a sort of tradition of mine to bring back a set of bills and/or coins from the country I just returned from.
When I was in China, at the end of my business efforts and the start of my solo travels, I need money. I could not use my BoA CC at all. Their partner banks in China all required a card with a 6 number pin. Mine has a 4 number pin. I spent a whole day in Xi'an trying to find a way to have access to cash. Calls to BoA in the US got me nowhere and the time difference was a real pain. With my trusty interpreter, I visited 4 or five banks trying to find a way to use my CC or to open an account or get ATM cash. It was impossible. I think I still have an empty bank account with Bank of China. In the end my wife wired money from our US bank into my interpreter's personal account and she handed me yuan. For me the lesson learned was: carry cash.
I expect that my CC might have worked in some places in Beijing because it is very cosmopolitan, but by then I had plenty of cash and didn't need a CC.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I agreeVery nice thread, thank you
(My intial response was just to just add the
smiley, but then I remembered this is an RD thread... 
)So... where are you going to take us next?
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
It was my pleasure! I'm glad I started writing these up for multiple reasons, the new one being that my 6 year old niece was bored while we were camping last week and asked me to show her some pictures on my phone. I tried to think of what to show her that would keep her attention for a while that would also have 6 year old appropriate photos all in a row.. After a bit of thinking I loaded up the Everest Basecamp thread and it was a big hit. Now I know what to show her the next time we're hanging out (I just need to use an ipad so I can really blow up the photos)
I have not but now that seems obvious! I just need to figure out where to hang it. Thanks for the suggestion!
That's a good question. I am not sure when I am going to go on the next trip.. Before the pandemic I was planning a trip to Tanzania to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro with 3 friends. That's been pushed back indefinitely now. I also had plans to visit Germany and Belgium to meet up with some online friends and attend a demoparty and have had thoughts of returning to Patagonia via the Argentinian side. That will all have to wait as well. Other places in my thoughts lately have included Portugal, Iceland, Taiwan, South Korea, and Croatia..
I spent about a day and a half in Hong Kong during a layover on the trip to Nepal. I am not sure if there's enough there for a thread (but maybe?). I also have a bunch of photos from a month long trip to Poland about 17 years ago. That was a family trip but we made a point to go all over the place. Also not sure if that would be a good fit; there's some interesting stuff, but I would have to probably exclude a lot of photos and the media is also quite old.. Other than that I have media from a long weekend trip to New York (mainly Manhattan).. and oh yeah, there's also media covering 2 weeks in California (LA, SF, Yosemite, some other locations) and hmm there's also pictures documenting a 90 or so km hikethrough of the Bruce Trail (in Ontario, Canada)
If any of those options are worthwhile and enough people think so, I might be tempted to write them up and share the best photos. For now though I think I need a short break
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I am still planning a trip to the Serengeti for July 2022 for the Great Migration with a side trip to Zanzibar. If you are atop Kilimanjaro, you should be able to see me.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
If we end up running into each other we'll have a crossover event where you show up in a pic or two in my thread and I show up in yours.
Returning to somewhere before you come out West?
Warpus (looks down from high up) : "Hey, it's Birdjaguar! BIRDJAGUARRRRR!"
Birdjaguar (looks up through binoculars): "Hey, it's warpus! WARPUSSS!"
Any friends, companions, or strangers in the vicinity wonder why both of you have suddenly started shouting very strange words...
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