Bad Taste?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Mad Hab, Nov 10, 2006.

  1. aluka

    aluka Warlord

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    A lecherous Catherine.
    Leather clad spies.

    Why didn't anybody tell me this before? I'm off to buy civ4.

    Edit: I wouldn't be againts more serious diplomatic dialogue in the civilization games. My post is not meant as a criticism of the OP, simply as a joke.
     
  2. Rod

    Rod King

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    At the beginning I just overflow this topic and I shared the opinion of many others in this topic : These are just jokes and nothing hurting...

    But the guy with the Washington Avator made me thinking ...

    ... yes it is true the eight leaders (yes only eight) of SMAC (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri) had personality. I mean real personality ... and there was something more.

    I just had a look on the screenshot of this site civfanatics.com itself. And the most screenshots from Civ II till Civ IV left me cold, but the screenies from Civ I made me shuddering ..

    .. Maybe I simply played Civ I too often and it is only 13 years ago, maybe it was my first Civ, maybe I just loved the game, maybe I was young (12-14). But definitivly each leader in Civ I had a kind of personality , too.
    If you encountered Stalin or Ghengis in Civ I then you had a problem. These guys really meant trouble (game wise) and this made you respect their wishes. Today when you encounter Ghengis then you just look to keep attitudes in balance and you rate him on your lists of neighbour .. How much can I trade with him, oh **** it is Ghengis he never has too much money or some techs or resources to trade with him.

    But alltogether you just rate this leader according to their resources but not according to their character.
    I think the game looses in this .

    That is also the reason why shortly or lately most people play mods instead of the original game. Did you ever checked out FFH ? When you play it the first times then it goes like this.. we are in the first turns, we need friends and some peace now. We explore the land and hope there are no animals running wild. Suddenly there is some other color a few tiles away. We go nearer. A Diplomacy menu opens ... some strange looking guys turns up (he looks like a mixture of a Gothic Fan and Cindy Crawford, could be male or female, but at least he is not looking grimly, but there is this creepy thingy on his face) and .. he is annoyed. He greets you with some strange line.. you check his attitude...
    '- 4' .. because
    'You are good' ! ...
    ... hey this is not good in game terms but it adds a heck a flavor !

    (Later it turned out that I traded furs and fishes with him and we had open borders. He is not too bad in technologies , too , some things we could trade .. I learnt in the civipedia that I was an old seriouly good civilization guarding the wholiest places in he world and that he .. well he is a real creepy vampire .. but I mean you can not choose your neighbours and if he is buying my fish .. :) )
     
  3. Mongolia

    Mongolia Khan

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    Mao Zedong said something along the lines of: "Welcome to China and all her horrible little peasants... I mean! Glorious Workers!"

    I am not standing up for Mao when I say this, indeed, he was a horrible ruthless killer, but, it is factually inaccurate, Mao wasn't instituting Communism for his own means (or at least not completely for his own needs) he generally thought that the Workers were great and deserved more, so this statement he said to me in the game is just plain silly.

    Churchill sometimes says something along the lines of: "Welcome <leader_name_here> let us have tea and crumpets and divide the world between us!"

    This is rediculous, Churchill wouldn't have wanted anything like that, he only wanted to defend the UK. If these statements that Mao of Churchill say are supposed to be jokes, they are anything but funny.

    Sometimes when Roosevelt refuses to talk he says something along the lines of: "American Empire does not negotiate with terrorists!"

    I think this is silly because it is insinuating that any other Civilization that the US severly dislikes is a terrorist.

    About this thing that this new found cartooness and leather clad attractive female spies and sexual text that Catherine says is aimed at the younger generation of Civ players, I am 15 and I would take a more serious, historically accurate Civ over this silly, cartoony version any day.

    Has anybody else noticed the racial changes to the leaders from Civ 3 to Civ 4 to make the leaders look more western?

    Ghandis skin is now lighter than it was in Civ 3, and Genghis Khan looks much more western in Civ 4 than he did in Civ 3. If I knew how to put images into these messages, I would show you, as it is, you can look for yourselves.
     
  4. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    That's funny, because I thought Civ4 was a step in the right direction for the AI personalities over Civ3 and Civ2--in Civ2, they had no personality that I remember. Then, in Civ3, there was the war-group and the peace-group. Now, I think they have more personality on the board, enough to make it comparable to SMAC. Like in my current game as Japan, I share a border with Genghis Khan. Yes, I met him, and we had open borders for a little while. Then, he demanded some tribute from me, I told him to f*** off, and he declared war. Other AI rulers aren't as prone to demanding tribute and then immediately starting a war over it as he is.
     
  5. kcbrett5

    kcbrett5 Warlord

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    You are missing the point. None of these leaders would have said they are going to overrun me with their numberless musketmen either. Firaxis is mixing a little real history with a little gamemanship of trying to take over the world. So when Churchill talks of tea and crumpets, that is something english. And when he talks of dividing the world, that is something CIV-ish.

    Its not meant to be Bartlett's book of famous quotations.
     
  6. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    :hammer2: :banana: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rockon: :mwaha: :yup: :hammer: :D

    Best line of the thread!!!

    Thanks Antilogic and kcbrett5 for putting some light in this censuring thread!

    Omg do you really think they have no personality? What about MansaMusa-technuts, Isabella-religiousfanatic, Monty The Madest, Gandhi the 200% peaceful and so on?? Omg, I played ALL versions of this game, and sincerious this one has the best personalities of leaders. If they put back the funny advisors and leave the LHs lik that its fine by me!

    Mongolia What about Shaka? :p
     
  7. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    The America line is funny, but I personally would rather have something more serious and epic for civ. But I plan on doing it myself too. Because this is probably here to stay I will admit. :(
     
  8. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Sadly...I don't have the time to find and program in a whole bunch of historically correct quotes as well...I am working on a testbed mod, though, that adjusts some gameplay features.

    I think Rod isn't giving the Civ4 leaders enough credit for personality. I seem to notice it almost every game though...even certain Civs seem to prefer to found certain religions. I concede that SMAC had much more developed personalities, but that was because there was 7 factions with the original release (if I remember correctly). They could afford to spend a lot of time customizing them. As for Civ4...I think they have found a good balance between making a good AI and personalities...not the best, but fairly good.
     
  9. Goldfish4209

    Goldfish4209 Chieftain

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    Well, the quotes can be really off sometimes. But hey, it's the age of politically incorrect jokes. :)P)

    As for catherine saying bold lines and looking like a model, I guess they're just exaggerating. Well, they're doing that with every leader. I agree with whoever said that they're changing their looks abit to modern standards to get the point across. Is that really bad? If your idea of hot girl is that waif by the beach, it'll be really hard to get why anyone would want to sleep with Catherine if she was obese. I guess they're just trying to get the point across.

    If you get some president from the past that was pro segregation, he would never win. Make him pro iraq war, and he'll actually have a chance. Different times have different views and issues.
     
  10. Syndrome Zed

    Syndrome Zed Wanna see my quad laser?

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    Err....if FDR is refusing to talk, it's usually because you're at war with him. I can't think of a game where he's refused to talk unless it was a fight with him, and I was losing. Even with "aggressive AI" checked on, they'll talk unless there's fighting involved.

    Even if, for the sake of example, he is refusing to talk to you and you're not actually at war with him, odds are you earned your negative relations number through declarations of war against his allies or extortion or any of the other less savory tactics you can use as the leader of a powerful nation. But from "his" viewpoint, you'd still be doing things that terrorists have used as tactics too.

    I won't go into talking about demonization of the enemy as a psychological tactic, since that would be reading WAAAAY more into a single line in a text file than is warranted. :rolleyes:

    Sometimes you have to take things at face value instead of assuming they're trying to imply something. Really, the only silly thing about FDR's statement is that saying "American Empire will...." instead of "The American Empire will" or, preferably instead of saying Empire for any civ, "The [CivName] government will not negotiate...." It's just lousy sounding grammar is all.
     
  11. Zande33

    Zande33 Chieftain

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    I am a male teenager 15 years old and don't find any of these jokes amusing at all. To be honest I think it ruins the attitude a bit. Makes you wonder who wrote the dialouges. I mean come on, some of that stuff is just ridiculous. I'm interested in actual history and strategy,thanks.
     
  12. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Catherine was only obese later in her life. When she was in her 20's, she was thin. I don't get the segregation to Iraq war thing...maybe you should have used "gay rights" for your example instead to keep it on civil rights issues.
     
  13. Mad Hab

    Mad Hab Warlord

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    Nice! :)

    I am playing on Monarch level right now, with Napoléon. My neighbors, fellow buddhists Caesar and Tokugawa, are friendly and helpful. The others - Saladin, Roosevelt and Qin Shi Huang - are not so friendly nor so helpful, but they haven't declared war (and will not, I guess). I am leading the world on science, but have a very weak army. If I was playing, heck, Civ 1, I would be terrified to have anyone but the Babylonians or the Americans around, on these circumstances. But, in Civ 4, I'm feeling very confortable. So, this is something Civ 4 lost: the feeling of "that guy means trouble" - now it's maybe too easy to control the AI reaction towards you.

    Or maybe I should just make sure Montezuma is present every time I play... :lol:

    Peace,

    Mad Hab
     
  14. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    How you got Toku to be your friend? 0.o, in my games he doesent even want open boards hehe.

    I think the mostly war leaders(ad mostly backstabbers that will atack you as soon as they see your boards cities unprotected) are Monty, Genhis Khan, Toku, Napoleon, Shaka(warlords), Isabella(religion), and Alexander(this one atacks even in friendly!).

    Others like Vikings and Stalin are also War leaders, but in a lower degree I believe.

    Anyway good luck, I think you made your point, and I think*hope* I made mine. Perhaps in next expansion(that probably will be builders expansion) they put better comments from the LHs and maybe even advisors! hehe.


    Ps: Still laughing with the USA comment(never saw before), and people say Firaxis doesent have intelligent humor as well hehe!
     
  15. Mad Hab

    Mad Hab Warlord

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    I must put a screenshot of this sometime: I have a large city on an island, defended by 1 warrior and 1 axeman. It's 1900, and I am finishing my spaceship (I will win the game). Caesar, my isle neighbor, is "pleased" with me, and have 6+ infantries in his city. If I was well protected, he would be of course foolish to attack me - but that's not the case. Tukugawa could easily take it as well... No wonder people get crunched in multiplayer - they are used to this 'excessively-friendly' AI...

    As for the Roosevelt line... I don't really get it. Is it satyrical - because the US likes to treat other countries as "terrorists" if they oppose them? :confused:

    The Mao line is nice. Maybe the first one I read that I thought it was funny - even if historically inaccurate...

    Cheers,

    Mad Hab
     
  16. Arlborn

    Arlborn Legendary Noob

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    Caesar normally is no backstabber. And for Tokuguwa, he Is a bit dumb heh..

    By the way, I see that you dont like much the AI being so easy in war? Do you have warlrods? IF yes, go to warlrods section and give a look at the "better AI." by Blake hehe, awesome.

    And the US line was really sarcastic indeed :p
     
  17. WilliamOfOrange

    WilliamOfOrange King

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    Not as addictive as these here forums. I am at work right now :mischief:

    I forgot to mention about how I spent time reading up on Sun spots, Lagrangians points, Calendar systems, Chaos, the Butterfly Effect and whether or not the Apollo Moon Landing was faked.
     
  18. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Hmm...I am more able to resist the call of these forums than Wikipedia. Maybe I have built up some kind of an immunity.


    I almost always play with Aggressive AI on to make the AI more opportunistic and violent. It works pretty well, in most games...I have one flustering game going right now where Shaka, despite being the strongest guy in the world, refuses to attack anyone by himself with Aggressive AI on. The only war that has occurred at all was my invasion of a particularly weak neighbor. I'm getting pretty aggravated...
     
  19. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    We are currently learning about Russia, and our teacher said that Catherine had sex with horses... so, if that's true, well...
     
  20. Psyringe

    Psyringe Scout

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    Ask your history teacher on which proven sources he bases his assumption.

    The horse story is a myth, actually it's so a well-known *as a myth* that I'd expect a history teacher to know about its nature ...

    Back to the topic of the thread: I'd also prefer a more mature serious, mature approach to dialogue in Civ - but wasn't there a mod for this?
     

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