Balance Feedback
- Thread starter Valkrionn
- Start date
Don't they still have Pyre Zombies? Those used to do a lot of damage. They used to rush to get them too.
If you have bronze weapons, they should have the Zombies if they are keeping up.
Well... I played a Sheaim game last night as they're one of my favorite civs, and if anything I thought the Duskbringers were too strong. Warriors that can spam skeletons? Makes them the best rushers bar none. Not only did I take out the nearest civ without losing a single real unit, I also accumulated nearly 2000 gold within 100 turns on epic speed by spamming skellies to explore every lair and city ruins within half the map of my starting position.
But yeah I took Prespur and their second city just by bringing 20 skellies and 6 Duskbringers for post-capture garrison duty. Before long my score was equal to all the other civ's scores combined, as I did the same thing to a couple Hippus cities not long after. I was only playing on Monarch level though, tired of cities being unhealthy at 2 pop.
I think the AI is just worse with them than many of the other standard civs. I've noticed the Calabim and Sheaim never accomplish anything under AI control anymore. But of course the AI was never that effective with Calabim to begin with.
But yeah I took Prespur and their second city just by bringing 20 skellies and 6 Duskbringers for post-capture garrison duty. Before long my score was equal to all the other civ's scores combined, as I did the same thing to a couple Hippus cities not long after. I was only playing on Monarch level though, tired of cities being unhealthy at 2 pop.
I think the AI is just worse with them than many of the other standard civs. I've noticed the Calabim and Sheaim never accomplish anything under AI control anymore. But of course the AI was never that effective with Calabim to begin with.
the point is:
even without bronze tech, normal warriors with 2 or 3 promotions have good odds at defending against bronze warriors. skeletons stay at strength 3. after 2 or 3 fights the attacking warriors are level 5 or 6 and cant be taken out by 2 or even 3 skeletons anymore. i got 2 generals until turn 70 just from taking out useless skeletons and wiped them out once my warriors had enough promotions.
with the orcs it was even easier. it took me ONE boss and 200 gold to kill sheaim.
both on emperor.
even without bronze tech, normal warriors with 2 or 3 promotions have good odds at defending against bronze warriors. skeletons stay at strength 3. after 2 or 3 fights the attacking warriors are level 5 or 6 and cant be taken out by 2 or even 3 skeletons anymore. i got 2 generals until turn 70 just from taking out useless skeletons and wiped them out once my warriors had enough promotions.
with the orcs it was even easier. it took me ONE boss and 200 gold to kill sheaim.
both on emperor.
Wait, can skeletons no longer gain promotions? If that's the case, then you might have a point. Otherwise, I wouldn't say it is a problem with the Sheaim, but with the AI in general.
I've noticed that currently pretty much any AI is a pushover. I've played three games to turn 200 so far, and I've never seen an AI with more than 2 cities (or more than 8 pop combined!), ususally with a small handful of swordsmen for guards. I normally play on Prince, and I've bumped it up to Emperor for my latest game. Finally, I'm not in the lead!
I've noticed that currently pretty much any AI is a pushover. I've played three games to turn 200 so far, and I've never seen an AI with more than 2 cities (or more than 8 pop combined!), ususally with a small handful of swordsmen for guards. I normally play on Prince, and I've bumped it up to Emperor for my latest game. Finally, I'm not in the lead!
Randomness
...
Skeletons have no unit combat, thus can gain no promos (there is one leader that has melee skeletons, think it's a scions leader).
They can gain a few upgrades, but not until later in the game really. Tower of Elements Strong promotion applies to them, as does Stigmata. Both take a while to come into play, obviously. And the standard Empowered promos, of course.
Still, it's an AI issue IMO.
Still, it's an AI issue IMO.
Forgot Tower of Necromancy?, It gives skeletons strong, Elemental towers Strong is only for elementals.
BTW: The Well building should cost much less
(60 versus 90, normal speed), currently It cost almost as much as the Herbalist, and I don't think that a simple Well could take so much, being Herbalist way much better than well.
I thought that those early skeletons were too strong. In order to capture a city defended by 5 skeleton summoners you need to bring at least 6 good units (rather more, your units might get damaged or even lose at 80%+ odds) and it will take several turns if the AI keeps summoning new skeletons. If your units are able to do that, wouldn't they be able to massacre 5 normal warriors as well?
Indeed, but I think Valk will just say "Wait for 1.4" or something like that.
The main issue with skeletons, however, is that they're permanent, and a simple adept can summon it. More easy is to make them fade through some turns, however, the issue of spamming them to capture would not be resolved.
The main issue with skeletons, however, is that they're permanent, and a simple adept can summon it. More easy is to make them fade through some turns, however, the issue of spamming them to capture would not be resolved.
no. normal warriors would promote against my warriors and probably hold them at bay for a very long time as they start off stronger than the skeletons and have better promotions.
if i get lucky and dish away the first wave of skeletons, all i have to do is to kill every coming wave of them as ALL skeletons coming out then have strength 3 propably no +% strength and NO fortification. you can get 2 generals in 5-10 turns and let them recruit new units and with their combat promos even those newly produced warriors will have +60% strength.
skeletons are merely free xp
inuyashasama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 195
All ranged attackers have a damage limit on their ranged attacks, however, the organ guns have access to a promotion that increases it, and passively gain an increase by having enough refined mana.
So yes, if you have enough mana or promote them enough, they are capable of killing units at a range.
Quite overpowered, but no bug, just a balance issue. Damage for all ranged units should probably be hard-capped at 95%.
Yes perhaps, but realice that only happens is target is weakened already or is weak. I've still to see one of these units slay a Beastmaster at 100%, won't happen, of course.
It can kill a warrior with 3 strength, or weak units. Cap sieges from killing a weak unit that will die anyways would be a bad idea. (Imagine a real battle situation, your squad, on a plain, is being constantly bombarded by heavy siege and almost everyone is dead, you can't suppose that they will magically stop because they think they would kill you, can you?)
You may be underestimating the advantage of a risk-free kill button. The damage these guys do is not, y'know, ping and if you're aggressive about forting mana and Master Siege promotions you can dish out some pretty sickening harm to a stack from a safe distance away. The problem becomes rather more serious if you're
Spells, notably, very rarely have a kill power - the only example I can think of is the Scion Hand of the Reaper or whatever, and it requires sending your mages into combat first. It forces defenders to abandon their positions and come at you, or die - and if you keep your siege well-guarded like you should, this is a lose-lose.
You pretty much need Assassins and something to guard the Assassins if they've got 2 or more operational range, or a way crush them immediately before they can really open up on your units. Healers help, but frankly, Medic III won't save you from a Mechanos stack. It'll just buy a little time for options 1 or 2.
inuyashasama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
- Messages
- 195
I killed Taranis with a huge stack of organ guns. Granted, it didn't all happen in one turn, but you lose no units this way.
It seems like the issue is that you can use the 'ranged' function while 'boarded'. This should probably only be the case for attack falcons. But I'm not sure if it's possible to program it this way. Honestly 5% strength defenders aren't that difficult to remove, but I suppose you are right that it's probably too much to be able to both bombard and kill units at the same time. Perhaps only units that inflict damage to multiple units should have this restriction though. I don't really see a big deal in giving an archer the ability to insta-kill that defender with 5% health, since he could have just attacked that turn anyway.
And about the sheaim.. don't they have the ability to recruit pyre zombies by sacrificing a population point? Considering bronze weapons come out at this same time, the computer or the player should be able to summon pyre zombies rather frequently (especially considering the lower population caps). I seriously doubt they need a buff.. perhaps the computer just needs to be taught how to do this?
I agree that the ranged attacks should have a maximum cap. In this way, you don't lose out on the experience for other units. The Mechanos Affinity did get a nerf though, so you need twice as much refined mana to get the 100% cap. Siege weapons should also at least get a penalty to ranged attack when attacking from ships, but not from within mobile fortresses.
