Balance - Fewer Weak Wonders

Thalassicus

Thalassicus

Bytes and Nibblers
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This component has been combined into the Balance - Buildings & Wonders modcomp. This thread and the separate mods will no longer be updated.


-----------------

I've improved the following wonders to make them more valuable choices alongside their companions, primarily through increased effect or -15%:hammers: cost.

This mod is now available in the Civ V Mod Browser (Main Menu > Mods > Browse Mods, search for "balance - ").

  • Colossus
    2:commerce: per tile (up from 1). No longer has hidden obsolescence.
    .
  • Eiffel Tower
    12:) (up from 8)
    .
  • Great Wall
    Poor AI leaves no way to effectively balance this. It's just not worth building at all. Reduced cost to 175:hammers: so it hurts AI less when they build it (down from 350). No longer has hidden obsolescence.
    .
  • Hanging Gardens
    175:hammers: (down from 200)
    .
  • Kremlin
    Same as Great Wall regarding poor AI. Reduced cost to 325:hammers: so it hurts AI's less (down from 650).
    .
  • Machu Pichu
    450:hammers: (down from 550)
    .
  • Notre Dame
    +8:) (up from 5)
    .
  • Pyramids
    +75% improvement building speed (up from +50%)
    .
  • Statue of Liberty
    1000:hammers: (down from 1200)
    .

The reasoning behind each of these changes is from discussions on the strategy forum and playtesting, such as this thread.

Spoiler Version History :

v. 6
  • Changed Eiffel Tower bonus to 12:)
  • Removed Forbidden Palace cost reduction
  • Changed Notre Dame bonus to 8:)
  • Changed Pyramids bonus to 75%

v. 5
  • Manually fixed the tooltips for Pyramids and Colossus (these did not automatically update to reflect changes to their data). The issue from earlier versions has been resolved.

v. 2
  • Known issue: Changes to tile yield or worker construction rates (Pyramids and Colossus) do not show correctly on the tooltips ingame. Working on a solution.

Other version increases were changes to the mod name or description to make it more concise and clear, and do not affect gameplay.
 
It's been discovered these are in fact in effect ingame, but a few of the tooltips do not dynamically update depending on changes to the game data, if that makes sense. I'll work on manually fixing the tooltips.
 
Really?

+100% build speed for workers? I already thought the Pyramids were a pretty good wonder.

Agree with most of the other ones.

Also consider increasing the cost of stonehenge, its quite good, as it will get you 2 extra social policies early on, that can exceed the effect of any of these wonders.
 
ashmizen said:
Also consider increasing the cost of stonehenge, its quite good, as it will get you 2 extra social policies early on, that can exceed the effect of any of these wonders.
Click to expand...

This is precisely why I increased the effect of the Pyramids. The wonders at the top of the tree (Stonehenge, Great Library) are generally considered very powerful yet cost less than the Pyramids. Rather than nerfing those, I instead made the Pyramids more valuable.
 
Great to see these mods popping up. Just a couple of notes:
1. Don't make forbidden palace stronger, it is AMAZING for large empires (20+happiness in one hit) It is one wonder which probably should be left as is.
2. I like that you changed the colossus, I do think that +1 gold to ALL water tiles in your civ instead though.
3. I think Ankor Wat currently decreases culture cost of new tiles buy 75%in the city in which it is built. I reckon a 25% in all cities would make it a much more fun wonder.

Really liking these balance mods (keep 'em coming) I mightt make a couple myself in the not too distant future!
 
So from I understand from reading the text, it clearly states that its "-75% in ALL cities".

So I think its a bug that it only works currently in the city that it is built, that hopefully will be fixed in a future patch.
 
I've downloaded and installed this mod but it still seems like the tooltips are out of date. Great changes though

Version: 2 - Beta
 
@bobbyboy29
You're right that forbidden palace can be very powerful in some games. It doesn't scale to map speed, so on a huge map it'd be superb. For my standard or large games, its typically given only gives 5-10 happiness, since a continent can be filled up by ~20 cities or less. It really needs better scaling.

+1 gold to water tiles is something I believe would be easy to do. The default incarnation of the Colossus was horrible. Only affects one city for 2:food:2:commerce: per tile, worse than a trading post on a river, is as expensive as the Great Library, and expired with Navigation.

@ashmizen
I'm uncertain whether the tooltip or game effect is the error, so I didn't change that wonder.

@Zaelen
Yes, it's purely a tooltip issue. The most recent version is "Balance - Fewer Weak Wonders (v. 5) - Stable", where I manually altered the tooltips to reflect the game changes for the Pyramids and Colossus (they did not update automatically). Just search for "balance - " in the Mod Browser and download the latest version. The tooltips should now all reflect their actual effects; if they do not, please inform me.
 
I always thought The Pyramids was awesome. After reading some posts complaining that it was worthless, I realised that because of the ambiguous description, people have two different interpretations of what it does:

1) Reduces hammer cost of workers by 50%

2) Reduces the time it takes for workers to build tile improvements by 50%.

I've just completed a game and don't want to start another one to test this (it's too addictive and time-consuming), so I was wondering whether anyone can confirm what exactly the Pyramids does?
 
I assume that it divides the time required for an improvement by 1.5, rather than multiplying the time by .66. Thus, the tooltip is correct, though a bit confusing on whether it applies to making Workers or making Improvements. I assume it's implemented this way so that if a player ever somehow got 100%, you wouldn't finish improvements instantly.
 
Thalassicus said:
In the vanilla game it does neither, reduces build time for improvements by 33%. This mod improves it to 50%, what you're thinking in 2).
Click to expand...
But you said in the opening post:

  • Pyramids
    +100% construction speed (up from +50%)
I'm confused... so which is it? :confused:
 
Rohili said:
But you said in the opening post:

  • Pyramids
    +100% construction speed (up from +50%)
I'm confused... so which is it? :confused:
Click to expand...

You should research mathematics asap. ;)

Base construction speed 10 turns.
So the worker finishes 1/10 of work each turn.
Increasing that by 50% means he does 1.5/10 each turn, which means it'll take now about seven turns to finish the job.
Increasing speed by 100% will mean 2/10 each turn, a.k.a. it'll now take 5 turns to get the job done.
_____
rezaf
 
rezaf said:
You should research mathematics asap. ;)

Base construction speed 10 turns.
So the worker finishes 1/10 of work each turn.
Increasing that by 50% means he does 1.5/10 each turn, which means it'll take now about seven turns to finish the job.
Increasing speed by 100% will mean 2/10 each turn, a.k.a. it'll now take 5 turns to get the job done.
_____
rezaf
Click to expand...
Doh! Thanks rezaf, I get it now! :)
 
First I want to say thanks for your mods. I have really like them all :)
In this mod I have found one bug:
you have: <Where Type="BUILDING_HANGING_GARDENS" />
should be: <Where Type="BUILDING_HANGING_GARDEN" />
 
Thank you for finding that jooyo! I'll update right away.

Interestingly, when clarifying the Pyramids tooltip I discovered they were originally intended to provide an immediate Golden Age. The help text is still there. Chichen Itza originally increased construction speed, and the Taj Mahal provided +50% golden age length.

This is likely why Chichen Itza is now considered so powerful and Pyramids are so weak. If the effects were swapped around near the end of development, they didn't have sufficient time to balance and play-test these wonders sufficiently.
 
None of the changes are applying for the latest version. I'm a little to tired to figure out why right now :confused:

I just fiddled with it (process of elimination) and the error is somewhere in here:


Code: 
        <Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>
            <Update>
                <Where BuildingType="BUILDING_COLOSSUS" YieldType="YIELD_GOLD"  />
                <Set Yield="2" />
            </Update>
        </Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>

When I comment out that section, everything else works.
 
Mwellrett said:
None of the changes are applying for the latest version. I'm a little to tired to figure out why right now :confused:

I just fiddled with it (process of elimination) and the error is somewhere in here:


Code: 
        <Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>
            <Update>
                <Where BuildingType="BUILDING_COLOSSUS" YieldType="YIELD_GOLD"  />
                <Set Yield="2" />
            </Update>
        </Building_SeaPlotYieldChanges>

When I comment out that section, everything else works.
Click to expand...

Figured it out.

That section belongs under the native <GameData> tag, you had it under <GameData><Buildings>
 
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