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[Balancing] War Cart Poll

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Kruos, Nov 3, 2016.

?

War Cart balancing, what should be done?

Poll closed Dec 3, 2016.
  1. No need, War Cart is fine

    33.3%
  2. Reduce its move to 2, +1 if on flat land (like the heavy chariot)

    8.3%
  3. Reduce its strength to 28 (like the heavy chariot)

    6.9%
  4. Increase its cost to 65 (like the heavy chariot)

    9.7%
  5. Remove its immunity to anti-cav perk (like the heavy chariot)

    19.4%
  6. Reduce its move to 2 (+1 if on flat land) AND Remove its immunity to anti-cav perk

    15.3%
  7. Other suggestion or combination (please post details below)

    6.9%
  1. Kruos

    Kruos Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Messages:
    140
    Here is a poll to help the dev to balance the War Cart Sumerian UU.

    Reference :
    - 30 strenght
    - 3 moves (+1 if on flat land)
    - Immunity to anti-cav perk
    - Cost 55 hammer
    - available from start (no tech pre-req)
    - no upkeep

    Please post details here for your own suggestion.
     
  2. skyclad

    skyclad Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    Messages:
    488
    Yes its pretty ridiculous:

    Faster
    Avaliable sooner
    More strenght
    No weakness vs spear
    No upkeep
    Less production

    Something got to go. Either drop strenght or increase cost for starters!
     
  3. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It really does seem like the War-Cart got six powerful bonuses, any two or three of which would have sufficed to make it a very strong unique unit.

    I would probably get rid of the immunity to spears--I just don't think it's good gameplay to have uncounterable units like that. And I might add back a point of maintenance cost. I think then you'd still have a really really dominant early rush unit, but at least one with some weaknesses and some risks associated with it.

    I might get rid of the price cut, too. +2 strength, +1 move, available from the start is probably still enough to be the game's best UU.
     
  4. Kruos

    Kruos Warlord

    Joined:
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    Regarding the upkeep addition, I did not include it in the poll on purpose as I consider that the whole 'no upkeep' thing should be adressed globaly (every military units should have at least one upkeep IMO - even the scout, warrior, slinger and other early UU like eagle warrior too).
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  5. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    If they made it only available from start, +1 movement, and gave it no penalty vs anticav, then it would be similar to aztec eagle warrior. But more mobility rather than builder acquisition.

    No unit should be maintaince free, and it doesn't really need the extra strenght.
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    9,395
    Yeah, the Warcart is pretty insane. Strong, available very early, no counter-unit available, and completely free, which makes them last until very late in the midgame. Not that much of a problem in SP, because the AI doesn't know how to use them, but in MP they seem to be pretty insane.
     
  7. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    War Carts are needed to get the most out of Sumeria's UA. If you nerf them, buff Sumeria in another way. I don't think the civ as a whole is OP.
     
  8. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    You can fix the carts and still get the most out of their ability.
     
  9. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Not if barbarian spearmen get a bonus against the war carts. They are so convenient as a barbarian hunting scout replacement....
     
  10. Joch

    Joch Warlord

    Joined:
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    Male
    nerf War Carts and you make the AI even weaker. Personally I like the challenge when going up against Sumer AI.

    War Carts become obsolete very quickly in any event.
     
    Heklios and whyidie like this.
  11. smartcanuck1988

    smartcanuck1988 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    The first game I played was as Sumeria and said war-cart makes them one of the top civs, but people then were rating it as one of the worst civs instead. Fast forward to a week or two after release and all of a sudden people are complaining their unit is too powerful.

    My take from it is that it's way too early to call anything too OP or not. We are all still learning new strategies and our opinions are still in flux. Therefore I chose "War cart is fine" because we should give it some time.
     
    whyidie likes this.
  12. Kruos

    Kruos Warlord

    Joined:
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    It depends of play time. After more than one hundred hours of play, one is able to estimate balance and at least identify big problem, IMO. Even if it is not the majority, a lot of players has already reached +100hrs of play, so it seems the good time to start speaking about balance and help the dev.
     
  13. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    No you don't make the AI weaker, by giving one civ that might not be in the game or might be played by a human, a slightly less strong unit.

    They even don't go obsolete until knights in medieval era
     
  14. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Obviously you can't listen to the people who place stuff into "tiers" without ever having tried it in practice and don't really have a clue

    What we know is that the war card unit is a strong and fast and cheap general purpose unit that can be spammed from the very beginning, and just let you zerg rush whoever.
     
  15. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

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    I second this.
     
  16. TurboJ

    TurboJ Warlord

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    Nerfing the movement speed would do the trick for me - as it is I feel it's a little bit OP unit. But OTOH it's nice to have a civ that actually has a strong starting unit. (Although the Aztecs have one too).
     
    whyidie likes this.
  17. skyclad

    skyclad Prince

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    What i really dont understand is why they can even build normal heavy chariot at all? ;) I mean come on! Its more expensive, slower, and weaker. Why would you ever build it?
     
  18. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    dev laziness
     
  19. Riker

    Riker True Metal of Steel

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    Because this way you can build one or more of them (since the icon is similar) by accident and nerf yourself. True story
     
  20. GT_OKEZ

    GT_OKEZ Warlord

    Joined:
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    Give it a maintenance cost but decrease the production cost a bit more. This will force the Sumerian player to choose spam or economy. I think there should be a cost/benefit not just benefit/benefit equation.

    Get rid of the anti-cav immunity bonus. Also, buff Spears in some fashion. Currently they are too weak to really do anything effectively as even light cav horsemen can still run over them.

    Buff the Ziggeraut.
     

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