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Ban cameras (the solution?)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by vonork, May 24, 2004.

  1. vonork

    vonork Emperor

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    When I watched the hearing and Rumsfelt said this he sounded more concerned that soldiers could take pictures(that could be embarrassing to the administration) then if the soldiers actually had done something wrong - and that that was perhaps the thing that should change.

    Rumsfelt - senate hearing:
    I have read recently in various media that the Pentagon issued orders to ban soldiers from using digital cameras, camcorders and mobile phones with camera function. (could however no find any active(or accepted media) links)

    Would that not be the wrong or right solution?
     
  2. Iggy

    Iggy Deity

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    Ban mistreatment of prisoners maybe more appropriate!
     
  3. nonconformist

    nonconformist Miserable

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    He also claimed that the mistreatment was "Not torture. It's abuse".
     
  4. crystal

    crystal Scrooge

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    That's like abolishing emergency numbers to prevent crimes from happening. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Sanaz

    Sanaz Gorilla Joe

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    Rumsfeld seems to have the main goal in life to cover up problems, to lie about them, and to make this all sound like there is an accomplishment. I was hoping this whole situation would have forced him to step down, but unfortunately we have a president who backs this type of behavior "100%".
     
  6. Little Raven

    Little Raven On Walkabout

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    Well, Rumsfled is right to a degree: It's very hard to run an occupation under information age restraints. It's very demoralizing to soldiers when they can't even shove a chemical lamp up a natives rear end without CNN complaining about mistreatment. It's not like they have cable.

    But this isn't a fight the military can win. As image-gathering technology gets smaller and faster, keeping cameras out is going to be next to impossible. Just ask health clubs, who are suddenly finding themselves scrambling to try and keep cameras out of their locker rooms. Soon every cell phone will have a camera...what do you do then? And that's only the start...Microsoft is already toying around with 'digital diaries' that literally record everything you do. How long till one of those suckers can fit into a pair of glasses?
     
  7. Panda

    Panda Metal head

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    So in other words, the real issue is not the torture, excuse me, abuse, but the fact that it got out? And after that comment we're supposed to believe these were isolated incidents they were unaware of?

    Shocking and disgusting.
     
  8. Vanadorn

    Vanadorn Motorcycling Paladin

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    You cannot have the benefits of a faster, cheaper, better global world and economy, without also taking into account the busted barriers that come when technology vaults over the walls and failsafes that society used to police itself.

    It's amazing that no matter where I am an any time of day, I can be in contact with anyone else. I can sit at my computer, rock my child to sleep with a bottle, and have my sister over 1500 miles and 2 time zones away watch this with me. I can walk down the street with metallica playing in one ear, snapping pictures of anything and everything else around me that captures my interest, and send those pictures to my system, or another phone with the press of a few buttons.

    The information age, means that - information. The ready availability, great quantities, and ease of acquisition and distribution of the aforementioned information from any source desired to any location required.

    Rumsfeld and friends are going to have to learn to deal with this new age and how to run an effective army in peacetime as well as war.

    My 2 cents.
     
  9. betazed

    betazed Seeking...

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    Call me a cynic, one with screws not tightened correctly. I love cameras. I want them everywhere. Wherever possible. With the one exception of our bedrooms (and that too because I think we are not ready to shed our otherwise illogical taboo).

    The reason is I believe that we humans are in our best behavior when someone is watching. Then we think not just about ourselves but about what others will think too.

    Everyone should know everything. Stretch it to the limit. I see no problem. I have nothing to hide and I do not see any reason why anybody else should either. Why all this secrecy? Why all this hiding? Maybe because we should find out something?

    Yes, this is an extremist point of view. I would love to introduce a rather limited point of view but then I fear lines will be drawn. Oh you cannot see this or you cannot see that. Exceptions will be made and they will become the rule.

    Rather, have the extremism. Everyone see everything.

    In that world I wonder how many corrupt politicians or con men we will have.
     
  10. crystal

    crystal Scrooge

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    That brings up a couple questions... do you have a public webcam, for example? :p
     
  11. betazed

    betazed Seeking...

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    If you want me to see thru a public webcam I have no problem at all provided you too have a public webcam that I can see you thru. ;)
     
  12. crystal

    crystal Scrooge

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    Ok, let's forget the whole thing. ;)
     
  13. Little Raven

    Little Raven On Walkabout

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    Only exception being bedrooms? Hmm...I dunno. When Natalie Portman announces that she doesn't want a webcam in her shower, I'm inclined to be sympathetic. Disappointed, but sympathetic. :p

    I still believe in the right to privacy, but I realize that balancing that against the public right to know in the information age is a very tricky. I haven't done enough research to say what kind of overall limits are appropriate, so at this point I'll stick to a case-by-case evaluation.
     
  14. betazed

    betazed Seeking...

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    You see I took an extremist view because I am sick and tired of being told what I should know and what I should not know. And this is not just from the goverment. But even in the company I work for and among my so called friends. Not only that; not only am I told that I should not know, these people know very well that I am too smart to figure it out all by myself anyway. So where is the point in hiding?

    We can change the rule 'everyone knows everything' to 'everyone knows everything that is not pertaining to a private individual alone' but that leaves the rule too weak and eminently twistable and disabused by people whose job seems to be to apply rules to everybody else apart from themselves.

    I have given this some thought and I cannot come up with a scenario where everybody knowing something leaves everybody worse off.

    Give it some thought. Come up with such a scenario and see how difficult it is.
     
  15. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    That would take a big bite out of the unemployment problem. Pay people to watch other people.
    Ok. Youre a cynic, one with screws not tightened correctly:mischief:
     
  16. betazed

    betazed Seeking...

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    Who said someone needs to watch? Just the presence of the camera is good enough. The potential that someone could be watching and that if I do anything criminal and harmful to others then someone will watch post facto is good enough.

    Now if only we could loosen those same screws for everybody else. :crazyeye: ;)
     
  17. stormbind

    stormbind Retenta personam!

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    How about a new constitutional right... everyone has the right to be filmed!

    That way, citizens and prisoners can be protected 24/7 but you can opt out when you want privacy.
     
  18. Bozo Erectus

    Bozo Erectus Master Baker

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    What a nightmare that would be. No more privacy:eek: The scary thing is that this could actually come to pass one day, maybe not in the far distant future.

    In a world like that, all illegal activity would take place in bedrooms. BTW I think bathrooms should be offlimits to cameras too:vomit:
     
  19. Little Raven

    Little Raven On Walkabout

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    Ok....let's see....two cases…

    One:

    I have a fetish for pornography involving midgets, caramel, and medieval torture implements. All consenting adults having a good time, but decidedly unpleasant to certain sensibilities.

    What, exactly, is the gain from this becoming common knowledge? Does society benefit in any way? Is there a compelling reason why people should know this about me unless I choose to tell them?

    I can certainly see considerable harm coming from the release of this knowledge. If everyone knows about it, (or can find out) my odds of finding employment and maintaining professional relationships have plummeted. My personal life is also likely to be heavily impacted. Even my family life may be threatened. In light of this, I would hope there would at least be a considerable benefit to exposing my sordid little habit. But I don't really see it. Can you point it out to me?

    Two:

    I am the CEO of a major pharmaceutical company. We've spent millions of dollars developing a new penile-enhancement drug. But there's one problem: There's a damn webcam hanging in each of our research labs! And our competitors are watching! So it's going to be a race to the patent office to keep them from trumping us. And even if we win, they'll still know how to make it, meaning that we're going to have to spend billions in court to keep illegal versions off the street. Yeah, we have our teams watching them too, but who is being helped by any of this?
     
  20. funxus

    funxus Orange Cycloptic Blob

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    I'm with betazed. If you're not doing anything you're not supposed to do, then you have nothing to fear... I'd like the privacy in my home though. I want to be able to walk around naked in my home, without the possibility of discovering these pictures on the web later on... not that many would want to watch me naked, but anyway.:)
     

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