Bandit Hideout under non-Banditry military civic

[Konrad Klar]

Some time ago Bandit Hideout could be constructed only under Banditry, but once built it was persisting in other military civics.
I am playing now using revision 10249 and as I see, it is no longer case. Once I switch to Tribal Warfare I cannot build Rogues nor Thieves (limit of the units is not reached, of course).

Is it a bug, or is it an intentional change?

 

[DC0]

Same for me. I've built Bandit's Hideout when I had civic Banditry. Now I have Tribal Warfare and Bandit's Hideout has vanished from buildings list. And I can train only Exile.

Can your criminals (Thief or Rogue) perform Infiltrate mission into enemy city?

 

[raxo2222]

It is more of bug:

it appears, that bRequiresActiveCivics doesn't just display text, that it requires civics to be active, but also apparently decides if civics are needed only to build thing, or its needed to keep things active.
That is: bRequiresActiveCivics 0 -> Building needs civics only to get built..
bRequiresActiveCivics 1 -> Building absolutely needs civics to work.

Problem with that tag was being used inconsistently - sometimes was zeroed and sometimes it wasn't here at all.

Those buildings got <bRequiresActiveCivics>1</bRequiresActiveCivics> tag (Some buildings probably meant to work even without needed civics), as I didn't knew that isn't just display text, but also dictates if building can function after turning off needed civics.
They had no such tag before.

World Wonders:
Statue of Liberty, Women's Suffrage, Elysium, Emancipation Proclamation

National Wonders:
Central Bank, Foundling Hospital, Royal Tomb

Regular buildings:
Agora, Bacterium Landfill, Bandit's Hideout, Chamber of Commerce, Foundation, Guild Hall, Highwayman's Hideout, Omega Child Crew, Propaganda Satellites, Recycled Goods Factory, Waste Incinerator Power Plant, Whale Shrine, Polling Firm, Blockchain Financial Services, Digital Voting, Megacorporate Headquarters, Cybernetic Prison, AI Singleton, Instant Education Center, Seastead, Ellis Moon, Interstellar Immigration, Eye in Sky, Monolith, Mad Scientist Castle, Time Abyss, Mars Monument.

What buildings should have:
<bRequiresActiveCivics>1</bRequiresActiveCivics>
Building needs Civic X OR Y OR Z OR...... to be built and to function.

And what ones should be changed to:
<bRequiresActiveCivics>0</bRequiresActiveCivics>
Building needs Civic X OR Y OR Z OR...... to be built, but no need of them to function.

@pepper2000 @Thunderbrd
Should wonders and crime related buildings have <bRequiresActiveCivics>0</bRequiresActiveCivics> as they used to?
What other buildings, that needs civics to be built can work without needed civics?
Omega Child Crew and Waste Incinerator Power Plant seems to be good candidates too.

 

[Konrad Klar]

@DC0:
I will check for that next occasion (and I will report).

@raxxo2222:
Maybe (or maybe not) one thing has something to do: in turn when Bandit's Hideout has been built I've researched Chiefdom and was prompted to change civic. I have changed to both Chiefdom and Tribal Warfare. Maybe if I would wait a bit longer (i.e. I would change a civics in "movement phase" of turn) the problem would not happen.
Anyway in the game I am playing a changing to Banditry causes that Bandit's Hideout reappears in city and changing to Tribal Warfare causes that Bandit's Hideout disappears (I cannot continue a building of Rogues and new units do not get a Looter promotion).

 

[raxo2222]

@DC0:
I will check for that next occasion (and I will report).

@raxxo2222:
Maybe (or maybe not) one thing has something to do: in turn when Bandit's Hideout has been built I've researched Chiefdom and was prompted to change civic. I have changed to both Chiefdom and Tribal Warfare. Maybe if I would wait a bit longer (i.e. I would change a civics in "movement phase" of turn) the problem would not happen.
Anyway in the game I am playing a changing to Banditry causes that Bandit's Hideout reappears in city and changing to Tribal Warfare causes that Bandit's Hideout disappears (I cannot continue a building of Rogues and new units do not get a Looter promotion).

Well that one tag, that I thought was inconsequential just does that.
I have to turn it off to make building always work.

Timing of civic change shouldn't have any effect.

For now those buildings should now work without civic (still needing such civic to be built).

World Wonders:
Statue of Liberty, Women's Suffrage, Elysium, Emancipation Proclamation (and its effect building)

National Wonders:
Central Bank, Foundling Hospital, Royal Tomb

Regular Buildings:
Bandit's Hideout, Highwayman's Hideout, Omega Child Crew, Waste Incinerator Power Plant

These buildings now needs civics to work (didn't need before).
Agora, Bacterium Landfill, Chamber of Commerce, Foundation, Guild Hall, Propaganda Satellites, Recycled Goods Factory, Whale Shrine, Polling Firm, Blockchain Financial Services, Digital Voting, Megacorporate Headquarters, Cybernetic Prison, AI Singleton, Instant Education Center, Seastead, Ellis Moon, Interstellar Immigration, Eye in Sky, Monolith, Mad Scientist Castle, Time Abyss, Mars Monument.

Buildings hit by proxy - those now explicitly needs civics to be built and to work - they need buildings, that need civics.
Great Wonders:
Nonsuch Palace (Manor), Palace of Beaulieu (Manor),

National Wonders:
Chief's Funeral Pyre (Chief's Hut)

Other:
Crime - Welfare Fraud (Welfare Office), Cyber Chloroplastida Bloom (Park Arcology)

 

[pepper2000]

@pepper2000 @Thunderbrd
Should wonders and crime related buildings have <bRequiresActiveCivics>0</bRequiresActiveCivics> as they used to?

Generally I would say yes, though maybe decide on a case by case basis.

 

[raxo2222]

Generally I would say yes, though maybe decide on a case by case basis.

Well some of those buildings were yours.
Also that list screams "Anachronism" with buildings from deep past/future and present

I'm not sure about buildings, that need buildings which require civics.
If they shouldn't be turned off if required civics aren't on, then it should be case with their requirements too.

 

[Yudishtira]

Not a biggie but a Waste Incinerator Power Plant can't function if you're not in the Incinerate Waste civic. If your waste is in the sea or in space or in another country, the power plant has nothing to burn...

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm a little too sick at the moment to fully grasp all the discussion but the intention of the bandit hideout is that it would continue to operate after being built but must be built while on the prequalifying civic. If there's an easy way to switch that over, great. If not, I guess we'll need a new approach. The units it unlocks shouldn't require the civic, just the building. AKA, it should become a legacy reward for having made the transition through this sort of society.

 

[Konrad Klar]

@DC0:
My Thief was able to conduct an espionage mission, but without any visible benefits (I still have the same amoun oft EPs against target civilization as before the mission).

 

[Yudishtira]

@DC0:
My Thief was able to conduct an espionage mission, but without any visible benefits (I still have the same amoun oft EPs against target civilization as before the mission).

Did the Thief return to your capital, or remain in the target city?

 

[Konrad Klar]

He has been returned to a capital.

 

[raxo2222]

I guess I'll change back regular prehistoric buildings: Bandit's Hideout, Highwayman's Hideout, Omega Child Crew as they were before.

All other civic requiring buildings will have to wait for individual review.
Maybe some of buildings, that needed civics to function doesn't need them to work?.

 

[Thunderbrd]

He has been returned to a capital.

I will have to review the code on that...

 

[Konrad Klar]

Cost of the mission was a 4 gold and city size was 1, so maybe this is just a rounding error (rounding down).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Cost of the mission was a 4 gold and city size was 1, so maybe this is just a rounding error (rounding down).

All BtS coding Rounds down, All. No exceptions to this hard rule.