Barbarian Cities

[Slax]

So according the most recent previews:

Barbarians in Civilization IV are not able to develop a full culture like the main 18 competing Civilizations, however you will see them forming independent cities and small militias. They are like a "mini-Civ" that can cause trouble at any time.

So, do barbarians have settler units at the start, do they get them when they capture settler units from civs, or do they only get cities when they capture them?

Will they only build military units in them, or will they also build other units or improvements?

Just wonderin'.

 

[dc82]

my guess is that these cities r replacing the old barbarian camps that we saw in civ3 - altho whether they'll need settlers or will randomly form is still anyone's guess. my guess though is that the most these cities will do is churn out a units. assuming this mite be replacing the barbarian camps, perhaps it'll also replace the goodie huts too, since it's now representing minor civs.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I like the idea, it's kind of neat. I hope there is some limited diplomatic activity with them. It would be cool to pay 50 gold as tribute in order to have a half-dozen barbarian horsemen ride off to give your nearest neighbor a headache.

 

[Double Stack]

I like the idea, it's kind of neat. I hope there is some limited diplomatic activity with them. It would be cool to pay 50 gold as tribute in order to have a half-dozen barbarian horsemen ride off to give your nearest neighbor a headache.

Or from keeping them pillaging your territories at the request of your enemies.

 

[Guagle]

my guess is that these cities r replacing the old barbarian camps that we saw in civ3 - altho whether they'll need settlers or will randomly form is still anyone's guess. my guess though is that the most these cities will do is churn out a units. assuming this mite be replacing the barbarian camps, perhaps it'll also replace the goodie huts too, since it's now representing minor civs.

From the original statement, the new barbs look terribly close to the civ3 ones. I mean barbarian cities that don't produce culture and probably only churn out military units ("miliitias"), does that remind you of something?

Until we learn more, i'm going to assume the only change to the barbs firaxis has done is add animals in the early game...

 

[dc82]

From the original statement, the new barbs look terribly close to the civ3 ones. I mean barbarian cities that don't produce culture and probably only churn out military units ("miliitias"), does that remind you of something?

Until we learn more, i'm going to assume the only change to the barbs firaxis has done is add animals in the early game...

huh, i mean the fact is they have cities, recently confirmed "they create independent cities and small militias" - which wud make sense as previous sceenshots seemed to have cities that didn't seem to match the official civs that are in the game.

 

[Guagle]

In this case, this is good news! I supposed the reviewer simply called the barbarian camp "cities". Kind of lame on my part.

Do you have any link to the kind of screenies you mention? I'd like to see more about this barb business.

 

[Slax]

I could not find anything that looked like a barb city in the screenshots. I'm pretty sure this is a barb camp or goodie hut (but not a barb city):

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Looks like a goody hut, not a city.

It wuld be nice if there ARE actual cities. You pop a hut and find it's a city. The barbarian leader contacts you. Maybe he makes a demand, for gold or a luxury (that would be neat, Barbarians actually engaging in limited trade, need quantified luxuries and resources for this though). Or, he asks you to attack another nearby barbarian encampment, and gives you a map of the area. If you are strong, he may give YOU gold, and ask to be left in peace. Such treaties would never last for long though.

 

[Joseph Stalin]

From the original statement, the new barbs look terribly close to the civ3 ones.

I think it is more like Civ2 babarians come from the seas and build a city there and pop out units, but they are possible to advance to more advanced units (so not seeing any warriors in 2000)

oh and it looks like civ2 because there it was possible that an babarian caputed a town its really neat because it becomes a small civilazation then building defrent units and some inprovements

 

[JavalTigar]

Yeah, I am also inclined to believe that they are looking back at Civ2. I always loved to see a barb city in my opponents territory, causing all sorts of trouble. Great diversion for a capitol sneak attack, causing a civil war splitting the civ and creating a new ally to crush the smaller civ.

AAAHHH the good old days....

 

[qazxc]

...oh and it looks like civ2 because there it was possible that an babarian caputed a town its really neat because it becomes a small civilazation then building defrent units and some inprovements

Barbarian settlements used to be able join your civ too, and if I’m not mistaken you could even send in caravans into barbarian settlements.
Civ2 handled barbarians much better that Civ3 ever did.

After all, by definition barbarians are “uncivilized.” I think that any game named Civilization ought to be able to “Civilize” its barbarians.

q

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

It was actually this screenshot, here:

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=30&c=2

that first got people speculating about Barbarians being re-cast as 'Mini-Civs'. The reason why is that both Agade and Cherokee have no cultural borders around them (or at least not ones in colour) and because both of these cities do not conform to any of the 18 civs that we know are going to be in Vanilla Civ4.
However, the conformation in the Gamespot preview (or was that the IGN preview?) definitely seems to confirm the suspicions first raised by this pic.
I sincerely hope, though, that Barbarians will behave a bit differently from those in Civ2 and Civ3. The ability to Convert, Civilize and simply Bribe barbarians-rather than simply fight and conquer them-would be a fantastic step forward to the whole game. Better still, if you could peacefully integrate Barbarian Cities into your nation, this would add a whole new dimension to our Gameplay-especially if Barbarian cities could also behave like-and replace-the old Goody Huts. Ultimately, it would be excellent if there were Civil Wars in the game, where your breakaway cities could become more modern day versions of these self-same Barbarian Mini-Civs.
However just this single, monumental step opens up HUGE future potential for both the expansions and for Modders!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[alexchunha]

Aussie Lurker,

In that screenshot, I think I can see the faintest traces of a gray cultural border around Cherokee and Agade. If you look toward the right side of the screenshot, where the white and yellow borders meet, it should be easier to see the gray. Also along the river and around the mountain in the lower left of the shot. Unless my eyes are worse than I thought.

Nevertheless, I share your enthusiasm about minor civs. I think they would bring a lot of strategic depth to the game. Instead of having to fight wars with all of your civ neighbors in order to secure a winning position, it might be feasible to buddy up with several nearby minor civs. Even if you have a tiny country with a small military, you could have an enormous influence on minor civilizations. The major civs may look at you with disdain, but minor civs would find a partnership with you to be very lucrative. By befriending several of them, you could augment your power quite a bit, and without resorting to military options.

On the other end of it, if you are the most powerful civ on the planet, you may eye a small, wealthy nation as a nice addition to your empire, but if they have good relations with some minor civs nearby, you may be in for a tougher fight than you originally planned.

Minor civs would definitely add a lot of flavor to diplomacy (also to war). Of course, Civ IV won't implement a system like this (at least not in the vanilla version), but it's something to think about down the road. And allowing barbarians to conquer cities is a good move, in my opinion.

-alexchunha

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Now that I look at it again, I think you might be right Alex. Of course, it isn't very clear, and could even belong to another civ that is not on the screen. The thing which really stood out with Cherokee as a possible 'Barbarian City' is that it doesn't fit in to any of the Civs that we know are in the game-thus making it more likely that the city doesn't belong to a playable civ.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Guagle]

@Aussie: thanks for the screenshot! But from what i see the two cities look like they have grayish cultural borders, which would mean they belong to some (unspecified) civ. I also noticed that units in said towns have flags: looks like a bull's head or somesuch that i definitely remember from an earlier screenshot. All in all it doesn't make these cities good candidates for barb cities...

Apart from that i very much agree with you and alex on improving barbarians, there should be options to integrate them in your empire (through conversion, bribery or diplomacy) or have them act as buffer states between competing empires (maybe with some sneaky financing from the player?).

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

@Guagle. That may well be true, but it still doesn't explain how Agade and Cherokee are even IN the game-given that none of the Civs to whom they would belong are in Vanilla Civ4. However, we do have confirmation from the developers that Barbarian Cities are in-so that is good enough for me !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[mitsho]

Agade and Cherokee were probably captured by a bigger civ, cause they seem to be really developed (also the cultural borders, etc.).
Minor civs are a great addition. point. I would like to know more of them. point

mfG mitsho

 

[Aphex_Twin]

It would be quite nice to see if it would be possible (with Civ4 or a mod) to have barbarians form civilisations of their own. For instance, say a type of barbarians conquer a few cities or if they found a city there could be a whole new civilisation around. That is, all during the game we could see new civilisations forming (something like the real world)...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, I had a thought that possibly Agade and Cherokee may have once been Barbarian cities, but have been since captured by one of the playable civs. Do you think that might be a possibility?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.