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Barbarian City-States

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by White Spider 8, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. White Spider 8

    White Spider 8 Chieftain

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    I have long thought Barbarian Camps should be capable of becoming City-State-like, especially when finding one on an island with 5+ units wandering around.

    Saw the idea mentioned by MisterBoomBoom and ashen god and thought I would add to and try to further develop the idea since I too have thought about it. Originally posted it in the thread “Civ Ideas & Suggestions Not-Worth-Their-Own-Thread;” however, it grew a bit and I believe it does deserve its own thread. I would also like more people’s input on it and hopefully it can be included in Civ VII, if not part of a DLC for Civ VI.

    Anyway, here’s the concept. Barbarian Camps should be capable of becoming a unique Barbarian cultured City-State after existing for some amount of time, or if they successfully destroy a City. Losing units or having non-Barbarian units within X-hexes of the camp stops/resets or slows down progression toward becoming what we’ll refer to as a Barb-State. This is to stop someone from sitting units around the Barbarian Camp keeping it at bay and it becoming a Barb-State. Obviously Barbarians kept under even slight control won’t develop into a very powerful society.

    Once they become a Barb-State, as is suggested they’ll be a bit different than typical City-States. I think their borders should always be open, their units can heal (maybe only inside their territory,) and they should still act like Barbarians. Meaning continuing to pillage improvements; pillage traders; attack units; condemn heretics; possibly hold Great People, Archaeologists, and Rock Bands hostage. I’m thinking that successfully completing these different actions would cause the Barb-State to grow. I think they should grow slowly as far as territory goes, but strength, population, and unit production should be bolstered more rapidly. I also think they should produce negative Loyalty to nearby City Centers, increasing as they grow by either how far they exert pressure or the amount of negative Loyalty produced. They would not be capable of having a Free City join them, but no one likes Barbarian neighbors so I feel it should have an affect on Loyalty to nearby City Centers. (Could introduce Great People, Governor Promotions, Wonders, etc. that reduce the Loyalty lost by Barb-State neighbors.)

    (Also toying with the idea Barb-States could destroy a Free City, just doin Barbarian stuff and conquering things. Let me know, good idea, bad idea. I’m not sure where I stand on it myself.)

    I think Barb-States should have fairly high defenses, and attacking their City Center (no need to Declare War) should act as if a Scout had returned triggering a mass production of units. No large Barbarian culture went down without a fight. If you do capture a Barb-State you should have the options to raze or keep the city.

    I was thinking of still having Envoys in play, but instead of gaining Suzerainty they would simply decrease the hostility level of the Barb-State.
    1) No longer pillage your improvements
    3) Won’t attack units unless within 1 hex, or inside of their border
    6) Won’t pillage your traders, and you can send trade routes to the City-State (Will still attack military units within 1 hex, or inside of their border)
    -Having the most Envoys to a Barb-State, though not available until you have 6 or more, would also allow you to hire the Barb-State units to attack another Civilization or City-State that is nearby. Players would not gain control of the units and you might not get your money’s worth out of the deal, but that’s a chance you take. (The only way to see who has the most Envoys at a Barb-State would be through a Spy mission, and would could cause grievances if a Civilization completes the mission successfully, discovering you ordered an attack on them recently. Perhaps a Casus Belli against a Civ if you find they did this.)

    Trading with Barb-States I would imagine should yield high gold, possibly an Amenity for the City the trader originated from, black market goods. Though the Amenity could be unique to the Barb-State as I also think they should each be unique, and this is where I need the most help. What Barb-States should we include? That said I also think Barbarian Units, Barb-State or just normal Barb Camp should be unique probably starting around the Medieval Era. Barbarian Knights, Infantry, Tanks, and Submarines is a bit ridiculous. Would love some input on what types of units we could give the Barbarians throughout the different Eras. With the Barb-States I think they should each get a unique unit or I guess depending on the Barb-State something unique to their culture, doesn’t have to be a unit, but I would limit it to one unique thing.

    In game I think it should be limited to one Barb-State being started per era, if any, so as to avoid the map being overrun by them if exploration is slow. As stated before a Barb-Camp would have to meet certain requirements before becoming a Barb-State so there might not be any started at all in an era, but also don’t want 4 Barb Camps doing it all at once around the map.

    I have two Barb-State ideas myself, I’ll post each in their own respective reply so they can be individually addressed. As well as one with a few Barb Unit ideas I have.

    Anyway, I look forward to feedback on this concept, as well as all the Barbarian unit ideas and Barb-States you all come up with. :grouphug:
     
    nauberry likes this.
  2. White Spider 8

    White Spider 8 Chieftain

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    Modern Era Barb-State: Nassau

    Port City; only develops from a Barb Camp on Coast

    Unique Unit: Pirate Ship
    (For all intensive purposes it is just a Sea Dog, but under a different name and Barbarian)

    Skull and Crossbones symbol for the unit of course.

    Granted this could also just be a standard Barb Unit instead of Privateers. If so Nassau would need something else to make it unique.
     
  3. White Spider 8

    White Spider 8 Chieftain

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    Information Era Barb-State: Taliban

    Only develops from a Barb Camp on a desert tile.

    Unique Ability: Taliban units can move onto Mountain tiles. Taliban units on Mountain tiles are not visible to other units unless they attacked that turn. Mountain tiles provide +10 defense to Taliban units.
     
  4. Naktis

    Naktis Warlord

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    Cities that revolt should be barbarian city states...
     
    White Spider 8 likes this.
  5. White Spider 8

    White Spider 8 Chieftain

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    I like that, after so long as a Free City they develop into a Barb-State if not brought into a Civilization for a while. I’m playing a game right now where another Civ settled in a bad spot, lost the City and it’s out of the way so no one has taken it.

    I think with that it would be cool if it had a chance to become a normal City-State, or a Barb-State.

    Get a notification, “The people of “X-State” have been independent for so long it seems they’ve developed their own unique culture. -

    a. Fortunately they seem to be friendly. Becoming friends with them could prove to be valuable.

    b. It seems they are not friendly, we may want to keep a close eye on them.”
     
    Naktis likes this.
  6. steemroller

    steemroller Chieftain

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  7. nauberry

    nauberry Chieftain

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    Very nice idea OP and something I have wished to civ for a long time. This would also help with some areas of the map being empty and would make Terra map colonization much more interesting. I would like to continue the idea with the barbarians growing stronger and stronger if left untouched. They could for example spawn more barbarian camps around the city, which would then grow to their own cities. This would eventually pose a huge threat, at least if the barbarians act as aggressively as they do now.

    This would be interesting, as it would simulate something like the great steppe horders of middle asia.

    Maybe balance the barbarians so, that their culture and science values are very low, but they produce a ton of units.
     
    White Spider 8 likes this.
  8. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

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    Back in Civ4 Barbarians have their own cities and flies black flag rather than red. These cities are named after famous and dreadful warrior cultures like Xiong Nu or Huns, for example (Actually these might be the same people)
     
    White Spider 8 likes this.
  9. AlanH11

    AlanH11 Chieftain

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    Good idea.
    Trump or Johnson as barbarian leaders.
     
  10. White Spider 8

    White Spider 8 Chieftain

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    A little slow getting around to my Late Game Barbarian Unit ideas, but I think generic units are a cop-out. We don’t deal with Barbarians any more. We have Mafias and Gangs and Terrorists. I think Barbarian units should transition as well. Perhaps in a certain Era not even having Camps, just units popping up in your City. It’s internal populations that are the problem now. Not having enough food or housing, or amenities, increasing the likelihood of these units. With these new units would need to come new ways of dealing with them too.

    I have a few ideas, but there would need to be a wider variety and as I said other game aspects would need work as well. Anyway, here are a few rough ideas:

    Bank Robbers & Art Dealers: Acts like a Barbarian spy mission. If successful player can perform a city project attempting to track down and capture/recover what was lost. If Art is not recovered it is offered to all non-Allied Civs in a one time Best Offer bid; you enter a gold amount and if you entered the highest you buy it. Helps to have diplomatic visibility to see what the others could offer.
    In addition perhaps a Modern Era City Center “Police Station” that once built decreases the success rate of Barbarian missions.

    Terrorists: Pillage without being seen, may reduce population, can pillage city center buildings. As mentioned above they will be less successful or do less damage if you have a Police Station. Perhaps adding a City Project, “Homeland Security,” that reveals Terrorists in your City giving you a chance to take them down before they conduct their attack. After Recruit Partisans it would result in Terrorists instead of totally unrealistic Barbarian Mechanized Infantry or Modern Armor units.

    Modern Pirates: Hold ship hostage, decreasing its health by 10% each turn. Gives player 9 turns to attempt successful rescue/attack on pirates before unit is destroyed. Rescues have a % chance of success like spy missions. Greater success if the unit has 6 turns to perform mission; but you can attempt faster rescues with decreased chances of success. Submarines, Air units, and SpecOps have better chances of success than other units and can perform rescues in fewer turns. Unit would need to be 5-8 tiles away to start rescue attempt. Possibly add Special Counter Terror unit, or make “Counter Terror” an upgrade to SpecOps, either way this unit or upgrade would have the best chance and require the fewest turns to complete.

    As I said, some rough ideas, but I think starting in the Medieval or Modern Era Barbarian Units really need a bit more to them. Hope this triggers some creativity and you all post some better unit ideas in here. Would love to see something like this in the next DLC or CivVII.
     

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