[NFP] Barbarian Clans Game Mode Discussion

[Maat]

You mean do the camps continue to spawn even after they have starting changing into city-states? Reports indicate so.

So I don’t have to go into settings to activate barbarian clan mode that change into city states?

 

[Pfeffersack]

So I don’t have to go into settings to activate barbarian clan mode that change into city states?

No, you activate that mode and you get barbarian clan camps (if you don't activate it you get the standard camps spawning units harassing everyone without any peaceful interaction or CS conversion! The classic one-dimensional barbarian gameplay...).

If activated, up to reaching the CS limit (either what you allowed in the picker or the map one, whatever is lower) they have the chance to evolve into CSs over time; after that they still spawn and can be interacted as usual, just the progress-meter towards CS-conversion has no function anymore. The last patch fixed various issues with that mode and clan camps no longer appearing after CS maximum was reached was one of them. Overall, I consider that mode to be pretty much fixed now. Surely balance could be fine-tuned (e.g. the conversion could be a bit slower overall or a mechanic could be introduced which makes CS ending up in poor terrain or on the map edges less likely), but I runned so far into no more really buggy issues with it.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

The ideal (-IMHO-) solution to essential Barbarian Clans "parametric data" is to exploit an easily configurable Mod by Nerevatar ... ( http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2412920721 ) ... and fine-tune a few values to your preference.

Here's my wacky SQL response (Attached file) to many "irrational" features & some weird method to prevent rapid/excessive CS conversions. Those allow me to maintain Barbarians competitiveness well into Modern++ Eras, etc.
Example from Line #11;
UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value = 598 WHERE Name = 'BARBARIAN_CLANS_CIV_CONVERSION_POINTS_STANDARD';--(300n)default 120
** This enforces them into accumulating 400 points rather than 120 which were much too fast for me!

Of course @Pfeffersack suggestion to calibrate the active true City-States count can mitigate their capacity to reach critical mass and start flooding map conditions. But those require logical control of multiple factors related to Advanced Settings pre-declared at runtime. Yet modded SQL manipulations makes the "calculations" much less cumbersome since the adjustments are nearly automatic **IF** you know what to do to the config variables in terms of exact gameplay impacts.

 

[Abaxial]

Barbarian clans are definitely fixed in the April patch, to the extent that new camps keep appearing. It does mean that the number of city states balloons as the game progresses.

 

[Smity2k1]

Barbarian clans are definitely fixed in the April patch, to the extent that new camps keep appearing. It does mean that the number of city states balloons as the game progresses.

Yeah I really just see this game mode as "tons of city states mode" it really doesn't seem to add much as is

 

[aieeegrunt]

Yeah I really just see this game mode as "tons of city states mode" it really doesn't seem to add much as is

Tons of useless arctic research stations you mean

Why are barbarians spawning on an ice shelf to begin with? Was there some Inuit scourge that rampaged it’s way to the gates of Ottawa that was purged from Canadian memory or something?

 

[Abaxial]

No, it's because Barbarians like to set up camp somewhere where they are not observed, and the polar regions are ideal for that.

 

[aieeegrunt]

No, it's because Barbarians like to set up camp somewhere where they are not observed, and the polar regions are ideal for that.

In the Arctic no one can hear you scream as you starve and freeze to death.

What are they, the Penguin Armada? The ice caps cannot support that level of population

I just finished a game on huge TSL earth, as Germany I was wondering why my conquest of Russia was so easy...then after taking ST Petersberg I discovered a barb camp up around where Murmanks would be that had a larger army of line infantry than the bloody Red Army did

Ridiculous. There should be some intelligence behind where they spawn

 

[cain3456]

Yeah I really just see this game mode as "tons of city states mode" it really doesn't seem to add much as is

Um, no, there was definitely a limit to the number of city-states. The new barb clans just acted like the old barbarians. You could buy mercs and that but city-state forming was disabled after a certain point.

 

[Pietato]

Seems to be working fine, except for the fact that the barbs have infantry and AT troops running around at turn 120...

 

[Pfeffersack]

No, it's because Barbarians like to set up camp somewhere where they are not observed, and the polar regions are ideal for that.

It has to be noted though that the observation "polar region" is probabably technically more "map edge". In most cases it is the same, but currently playing on the TSL Mediterranean map I noticed that a lot of CSs ended up on the southern/northern map edge or even in the map corner tiles. The southern ones are double-it by this, because they end up in desert, but even the northern ones suffer alone because of having only 1/2 or even (corner case) 1/4 of the usual tiles for expansion available.

For me that leads to the conclusion that this mode works best on maps:

a) with world wrap (as that eliminates at least two map edges); also maps without tend to have a lot of land adjacent to the map edge, even if it is non-polar
b) with a warmer climate, as that will limit land in polar regions

One of the worst possible scripts for it is probably Tilted Axis...

 

[Tuvok694]

More city states in the later game is nice and helpful, but I still have to give up about 3 out of 5 games in the ancient era due to massive barbarian attacks. I still cannot understand why they do not implement at least two different levels of barbarian aggressiveness, like in previous Civ versions, something like "normal" and "raging" barbarians, right now they are always raging at an insane level.

 

[DWilson]

Can anyone clarify for me: does the barbarians mode decrease the number of city-states that spawn initially, or increase the total that can spawn? I want to know how to set my city state numbers.

 

[Buktu]

Can anyone clarify for me: does the barbarians mode decrease the number of city-states that spawn initially, or increase the total that can spawn? I want to know how to set my city state numbers.

The number of initial CS is the one you can set in the game options when you create a game. The maximum number of additional CS that can spawn from barbs can be set through the CS picker. So if you play a standart map with the standart number of 12 CS and have picked 20 CS in the CS picker 8 barbclans can become CS. Note that more barb clans can evolve if CS are razed. The razed CS are no longer on the map so they will become eligible for barbclans again.

 

[Euterpe]

I want to like this mode, but I have extremely limited patience for barbarians and I feel like this mode just makes them appear too much. Now perhaps that's not true. When I played it last, I was under the previous impression that in normal games barbarian camps stopped spawning as the game passed, but that was wrong.

But god, I hate barbarians. lol

Also, more city states forming throughout the game means less areas to settle.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Note that more barb clans can evolve if CS are razed. The razed CS are no longer on the map so they will become eligible for barbclans again.

In my experience this is not true. On a large map with barbarian clan mode with standard number of CS and all CS checked in the CS picker, I had the following situation. Somewhere in medieval/renessaince all visible barb camps progress bar were reset ( even if there was not a city in close proximity). I captured and razed a CS in the expectation that it would reappear somewhere else. But no, the progress bar of the camps remained all empty. So I assume that razed/captured CS cannot respawn somewhere else.

Also another observation of mine is that, barbs do not tend to attack CS units. I am curious if others observe this too? On an island with two camps and 1 CS, a CS scout was waiting all the time on top of a goody hut at two tiles distance of a camp. But none of the barbarian units that passed by the scout had any intention to attack it.

 

[Linklite]

Also another observation of mine is that, barbs do not tend to attack CS units. I am curious if others observe this too? On an island with two camps and 1 CS, a CS scout was waiting all the time on top of a goody hut at two tiles distance of a camp. But none of the barbarian units that passed by the scout had any intention to attack it.

I've noticed that too, they just ignore each other.

 

[Socrates99]

CSs disperse clans all the time for me. Kind of annoying when I want one producing horsemen or UUs to stick around

 

[Linklite]

CSs disperse clans all the time for me. Kind of annoying when I want one producing horsemen or UUs to stick around

That's interesting, I've ever seen the two fight, to my memory. There have certainly been times where they ignored each other in my games.

 

[Pietato]

I think barbs ignore CS who used to be barbs.