Barbarian Scenario (February 2021) Developer Livestream Discussion

aieeegrunt

Emperor
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
1,113
From years of experience with professional software development, both coding and planning, on complex projects then I can garauntee you even if a bug seems trivial to an outsider it might still be complex to fix. It is clearly also a matter of priority. Spend X hours fixing this, or fix that other bug which breaks the game.

There is no definite correlation between time needed to fix a bug and impact of said bug.

That is because we have had two or possibly three generations of software “development” that is basically script kiddies cut and pasting spaghetti code on top of spaghetti code.

I’m shocked that anything works
 

_hero_

King
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
807
Military cards are useful if you’re not warmongering. eg Survey. Or use Agoge to build units, which increase your military score and so discourage attacks from neighbours, then garrison the units and use Litimani for loyalty (or Retainers for Happiness). Oh, and slot Conscription to pay for it all. Or use Maritime Industries to build cheap boats to do more exploring.

I mean, there is surely a reason FXS gave all the “tall” governments the most military slots, ie autocracy, monarchy and communism. Surely it’s because a lot of the red cards buff both defensive and tall play?

Survey falls off in usefulness rapidly and the benefits are questionable to begin with (maybe you get a couple extra goodie huts by having an extra promotion or a faster promotion?) Agoge can be slotted in temporarily in order to rush out the units you need but it serves no purpose if you're not actively building units and I must have very different experiences then you because usually I have a sufficient army to defend myself and discourage attacks very early in the game and find myself not even building any units for most of the classical era if I'm playing defensively. The loyalty from garrisons is virtually never needed except when taking cities.

The problem with red cards is that most of them are not good as constant cards and are far better as cards you swap in temporarily. The only one in the early game that was consistently helping every turn was Conscription. What would end up happening in most of my games if I had a second red card was that something like Agoge would be slotted in but then I'd find that half the time I wasn't actually building units so it was a dead card and it would have been more beneficial to even have a diplomatic card. A clever player will not leave cards they are not using slotted in constantly but that was often unavoidable with red cards.

Anyway, I know you don't want to keep replying, I just wanted to point out that there's far more nuance to the anti-red position than you seemed to give credit to.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
4,636
Location
north of Steilacoom, WA
I just started a new game with barbarian mode. Try to guess which natural Wonder appear at 3 tiles from my capital? Insane!!

Of course, Venetia is in the middle of paititi, so they are already dead... but they do not know it yet...

Update: I kill Venetia, and don't tell me it wouldn't be cool the adjacy bonus to the CH and Zimabue!! :(

It seems the game is making fun on me... the first game post patch... and this location...

It seems that not just Firaxis, but the game itself is reading these Forums to mess with us . . .
 

CoconutTank

Unapologetic Warmonger
Supporter
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
532
Location
Macro Land
People who play monarchy: what three military cards were you even using at that point in the game?
Late, but Conscription, Feudal Contract, Professional Army, Chivalry, Veterancy, Equestrian Orders, Logistics, and Drill Manuals. Potentially Limes if I've got a few cities that could use the help, Bastions if I've somehow gotten too greedy and neglected my military for a bit.
 

cain3456

King
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
647
I think the barbarians and secret societies modes work at cross purposes. Vampires want you to disperse a barb camp that you may not want to disperse now.
 

nzcamel

Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
3,162
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Well well. These were all CS's that came out of Barb tribes. Looks like once you save a game and reload it they revert to their proper borders. I do prefer that myself.

Spoiler :

Barb CS 1.jpg



Spoiler :

Barb CS 2.jpg





I think the barbarians and secret societies modes work at cross purposes. Vampires want you to disperse a barb camp that you may not want to disperse now.

That sounds like only one of the four SS's work at cross purposes to the Barbarian mode.
 

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,147
Location
Germany
That sounds like only one of the four SS's work at cross purposes to the Barbarian mode.

HO might not be an ideal choice as well (you have another competitor, which can block interesting settling spots with ley lines), but I wouldn't go so far as well to say that both modes work at cross.
 

Virdrago

Wandering
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
506
Location
Canada
Has anyone noticed that once the barbs start to become City States that no more barb camps show up in the game? I've played both with and without mods, and I've never once seen a new barb camp show up after CS conversion has started.
 

nzcamel

Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
3,162
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
No. I still have camps popping up. As the map fills in they do become rarer, but that is normal.
 

aieeegrunt

Emperor
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
1,113
Has anyone noticed that once the barbs start to become City States that no more barb camps show up in the game? I've played both with and without mods, and I've never once seen a new barb camp show up after CS conversion has started.

Same here
 

AntSou

Deity
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
2,275
Has anyone noticed that once the barbs start to become City States that no more barb camps show up in the game? I've played both with and without mods, and I've never once seen a new barb camp show up after CS conversion has started.

Same here

Is there any non-revealed land left? I don't think they'll spawn if they're within sight of civs and city-states borders and units.
 

Virdrago

Wandering
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
506
Location
Canada
Is there any non-revealed land left? I don't think they'll spawn if they're within sight of civs and city-states borders and units.

When I was exploring, I would find CS all over the map, with one envoy, generally not mine. Outside of the empty camps that have also been reported by others, I didn't see any new ones. To answer your question, I couldn't tell you if there was any non-revealed land left, but I play Continents & Islands Large/Huge, so maybe there are more barbarians than potential CS on these maps?
 

aieeegrunt

Emperor
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
1,113
Is there any non-revealed land left? I don't think they'll spawn if they're within sight of civs and city-states borders and units.

I play exclusively on Continents and Islands and the unoccupied islands ALWAYS have barbs. Always. It was almost like Civ6:Horror Edition as my scouting parties kept finding spaces devoid of human life
 

Jeppetto

King
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
682
You have to bribe them or hire them. Interesting to note that the AI does the same. In my game I've seen the Inca patronize at least two barbarian camps into city-states. What's most interesting of all, however, is that city-states can patronize and hire units from barbarian camps. I've seen several city-states with hired units, and a barbarian camp surrounded by city-states recently transformed into a city-state. Nice to know the AI can competently employ at least one game mode.

I am aware that boosts it, but it should also naturally progress on its own. It seemed to not do so (Online Speed) and also when hovered over the bar it didn't give any estimation as to when they would turn. Several of them were in grassy area, so plenty of Food.

I just started a new game with barbarian mode. Try to guess which natural Wonder appear at 3 tiles from my capital? Insane!!

Of course, Venetia is in the middle of paititi, so they are already dead... but they do not know it yet...

Update: I kill Venetia, and don't tell me it wouldn't be cool the adjacy bonus to the CH and Zimabue!! :(

It seems the game is making fun on me... the first game post patch... and this location...

I also got Paititi my first game. Ofc in game where I wanted to surround myself with Barbar-bros and turn them all into my little precious City-States, one had to sit directly under it so... Well they had accident.

@Ticio Started a 4-Hotseat game. I have a feeling Georgia is gonna win this one...


Is that a bricks Bonus Resource? I can't decode the icon with me blind eyes.

Well well. These were all CS's that came out of Barb tribes. Looks like once you save a game and reload it they revert to their proper borders. I do prefer that myself.

So the bug that they labeled as feature, because it fixes itself on reload, now as feature has bug, where the bug is actually fix of the original bug that is now feature :D

Has anyone noticed that once the barbs start to become City States that no more barb camps show up in the game? I've played both with and without mods, and I've never once seen a new barb camp show up after CS conversion has started.

Maybe you hit the limit? Did you change the settings of what City-States are supposed to spawn (the CS picker)?
 
Last edited:

nzcamel

Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
3,162
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
So the bug that they labeled as feature, because it fixes itself on reload, now as feature has bug, where the bug is actually fix of the original bug that is now feature :D

Yes :lmao:
 

AntSou

Deity
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
2,275
Is that a bricks Bonus Resource? I can't decode the icon with me blind eyes.

It's Peat, part of the Wetlands mod by JNR. It's well designed and works with the Vegetation Diversity mod, also by JNR.

Unfortunately I also had the Removable Resources and Features mod but those two are incompatible, so I had to restart this game... only for Georgia to spawn next to Yosemite.

Also, in both games my first or second hut was a Relic. I rarely find those. Is the chance of finding relics dependent on which Civ you control?

I'm doing the same, I think they should add more turns to the "raid" option (20 instead of 10)

It was actually an XP farm (using a mod that makes it viable), not gold. I wanted that barbarian camp to grow into a city state.
 
Top Bottom