Barbarian Scenario (February 2021) Developer Livestream Discussion

Starina

Warlord
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I still like the idea I had when that change was made; you should not be able to do more destructive spy missions against allies (destroy dams/districts/etc) but you should still be able to do more "info gathering" (steal techs, diplomatic vision, etc).
Definitely there should be allied espionage. BUT with its own characteristics. Not being able to destroy dams is a good idea

I agree. Especially seeing as the most militaristic country on the planet (US) is a e̶l̶e̶c̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶m̶o̶n̶a̶r̶c̶h̶y̶ democracy.
Capitalism. Democracy has nothing to do with it, it's a cover. And capitalism eventually slips into fascism
 

Ticio

Prince
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Maybe you should start a Thread on OP Synergies among Governors, Wonders, Buildings, Uniques, Natural Wonders, Buildings, etc.

Wait until they've finished with their April revisions, though, or they might use your suggestions to remove the most OP synergies!


Never! I will be bury with them! If they have dared to change Paititi, next could be Victor +Venetian Arsenal + Seaport!

I must shut up! and go to exile....


P.S: I remember a thread long ago about this same topic. People had insanely good suggestions, I learnt a lot! I think it was call "possible synergies" or something like that!



I will admit in a recent game, I was playing Kublai, with Maya starting next to me near Paititi. I 100% as soon as I saw that wonder knew that they were going to be dead from my horsemen as the only realistic scenario for dealing with them. Peace was obviously not an option.

But I just wanted it for tile yields, no need to put districts next to it.

I now the feels! when a city states take tha spot of a good wonder...
Anyways, why they always seems to spawn in Natural Wonders? it is quite infuriating... I thought they made a patch to prevent this! A civ that could do that would be quite interesting!

P.S: In my game, Paititi was in a tiny island with a City-state (great ability, so I could not destroy it). Therefore, I had to put the city into the coast, and only had 5 tiles to work. I had to use one of Paititi tiles for a Commercial Hub, but the adjacencies with the Port district were insane! (I needed both, as I had Owls of Minerva).
 
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Vandlys

King
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New Atlantis
I dislike the white borders for city states spawning from barb camps. I also don't get their reasoning. "It was a bug but then we liked it and it showed history". Since there is no difference between city states when a barb camp becomes one, it's just fluff in the UI that can cause visual miscommunication. Oh, a faith city state! Oh no, wait, different white border. Oh, it's a science city state. And it USED to be a barb camp, but that info does not help me so why do I need to know this?
 

_hero_

King
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There are already some great threads on Autocracy v Oligarch. See here here and here and here. If you read some of the posts by Vicky, Archon and Lily, and maybe some of mine, I think it’s clear that Autocracy has been generally underrated because some people haven’t appreciated the benefits of an extra military card over a Diplo card early game, and haven’t appreciated the benefit of the yield bonuses.

I think it isn't so much an issue of people undervaluing military cards as it is that most people don't actually want to play as pure warmongers. The game frankly isn't that fun as a war game in many people's opinions. Besides which, any high-level player can probably beat the AI on Diety even if they went Classical Republic and stayed there the whole game, never using a single military card. As for the yield bonus of Autocracy, that has become relatively less significant with all the game modes added as there's far more yields available from far more sources so the percentage increase of +1 to everything or +2 to everything isn't as significant as it used to be.
 

acluewithout

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Definitely there should be allied espionage. BUT with its own characteristics. Not being able to destroy dams is a good idea

Agreed. Allied countries would never conduct destructive spy missions in each other’s territories.

...Oh yeah. Except that one time.

Opps?

I think it isn't so much an issue of people undervaluing military cards as it is that most people don't actually want to play as pure warmongers.

Military cards are useful if you’re not warmongering. eg Survey. Or use Agoge to build units, which increase your military score and so discourage attacks from neighbours, then garrison the units and use Litimani for loyalty (or Retainers for Happiness). Oh, and slot Conscription to pay for it all. Or use Maritime Industries to build cheap boats to do more exploring.

I mean, there is surely a reason FXS gave all the “tall” governments the most military slots, ie autocracy, monarchy and communism. Surely it’s because a lot of the red cards buff both defensive and tall play?

Anyway. I keep saying I’m done and then keep posting. I will lose many internet points for that. Bad cluewithout. Bad, bad, cluewithout.
 

Pfeffersack

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Germany
@ "changes to Civ6 coming later this year..."

I'm pretty convinced that this is not refering to the two last NFP updates. There is no reason to use this wording, if nothing more is planned...knowing that you built up certain expectations with it and then willingly cause disappointment. Plus there was already that strange "one more year"-emphasize in the Dez dev vid.
For what these changes are - I see a couple of possibilities...an entire 2nd pass, some more DLC, some more patches, DLL-release or a Spin-Off game.


@ Changes to the AI and aircraft use

At the very end of the stream (around 55:40), when the AI changes around aircraft use where discussed, the last point mentioned was the the AI will trade more aggressively for startegic ressources needed for air units and value them higher. My personal hope is that theire purchase limit is increased from 22 for Oil/Aluminium, as they constantly run out of supply with such a low limit.
 

Gedemon

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For what these changes are - I see a couple of possibilities...an entire 2nd pass, some more DLC, some more patches, DLL-release or a Spin-Off game.
I place a bet on civ6 "Colonization" game mode.
 

Noble Zarkon

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I dislike the white borders for city states spawning from barb camps. I also don't get their reasoning. "It was a bug but then we liked it and it showed history". Since there is no difference between city states when a barb camp becomes one, it's just fluff in the UI that can cause visual miscommunication.
I like this - maybe it should be a unique colour though.

Allied countries would never conduct destructive spy missions in each other’s territories.
Well there's a difference between *in the territory* and *against the ally*.

Did they say the release time of the update?
5pm GMT, Noon EST.
 

nzcamel

Nahtanoj the Magnificent
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I dislike the white borders for city states spawning from barb camps. I also don't get their reasoning. "It was a bug but then we liked it and it showed history". Since there is no difference between city states when a barb camp becomes one, it's just fluff in the UI that can cause visual miscommunication. Oh, a faith city state! Oh no, wait, different white border. Oh, it's a science city state. And it USED to be a barb camp, but that info does not help me so why do I need to know this?

I like this - maybe it should be a unique colour though.

I don't see why they didn't keep it's normal border colour, but just in the fatter line that is there. That would convey both parts of relevant info.

I place a bet on civ6 "Colonization" game mode.

Alas in 2021, no way Jose.
 

Linklite

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I've not seen the video or this line, but to be honest, isn't a CS a CS? Why should I care whether it was an original CS or a homegrown one? Maybe it would help convince me that the AI is actually doing something (or not, as the case may be) with Barb camps, but it feels like it's not a helpful UI thing. I'd prefer they gave me a way of knowing what I had available when someone offers me a trade...
 

Noble Zarkon

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Why should I care whether it was an original CS or a homegrown one?
Many of us find that an interesting fact that adds flavour, your mileage may vary!
 

nzcamel

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I've not seen the video or this line, but to be honest, isn't a CS a CS? Why should I care whether it was an original CS or a homegrown one? Maybe it would help convince me that the AI is actually doing something (or not, as the case may be) with Barb camps, but it feels like it's not a helpful UI thing. I'd prefer they gave me a way of knowing what I had available when someone offers me a trade...

Many of us find that an interesting fact that adds flavour, your mileage may vary!

In terms of priorities Linklite is right.
 
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In my last two games focused on cultural victory, I was forced to choose fascism, because most of the opponents (4/7) were fascists.
But I agree that 4 red cards are a lot, and one yellow is very few. Moreover, in reality, a strong army simply cannot exist without a strong economy.
Therefore, I think fascism and communism need to change the red card to yellow
I think facsism is fine where it is. Though if you want to get rid of a military slot you could put it on wildcard.

I dislike the white borders for city states spawning from barb camps. I also don't get their reasoning. "It was a bug but then we liked it and it showed history". Since there is no difference between city states when a barb camp becomes one, it's just fluff in the UI that can cause visual miscommunication. Oh, a faith city state! Oh no, wait, different white border. Oh, it's a science city state. And it USED to be a barb camp, but that info does not help me so why do I need to know this?
At first I couldn't care but then you mentioned the faith city-state and I guess you are right about that.
It's kind of the same situation already when you encounter a free city or a militaristic city-state as well. I wish they were different colors sometimes too.
 

shaglio

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I wouldn't be surprised if "It was originally a bug, but we liked it, so we left it in" was actually "It was a bug and we couldn't figure out how to fix it, so we'll just pretend like we want it there."
 
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