Barbarians....... Make the game too easy?

[Conquistador_514]

I play on deity but have noticed that both barbarians clans mode (especially) and even leaving just regular barbarians in the game, make the game too easy because as much as a horse camp spawning near you on turn 3 can be annoying, the AI simply cannot ever hope to deal with a barbarian invasion and end up getting all their districts pillaged, their entire military destroyed, workers and settlers taken by the Barbs, which the human player later gets as gifts. I'm debating starting my next game with barbarians turned off completely or playing a game on a Terra map, where the AI won't be as punished by the barbs? Any thoughts from experienced players ?

 

[Smity2k1]

barbarian clans mode is really just extra city states mode, which makes it much easier for the player, IMO

 

[aieeegrunt]

Yet another Easy Mode for the player

 

[Archon_Wing]

It's pretty lame.

Much like most of the extra game modes.

 

[kaspergm]

You are probably right that the barbs in general weaken the AI (even) more than the human player, but either way, I feel the barb raid spawns are pretty absurd and over the top. When you try to attack a camp and they just keep pumping out a new unit each turn and you get completely swarmed it feels a bit unreasonable.

 

[James_Champagne]

I play with barbs off probably 95% of the time, partly because they tend to weaken the AI (as has been noted here), but also because I just find them an annoyance and not much fun.

 

[Conquistador_514]

I just started a game on terra map but I had to limit the amount of AI players because the main continent gets cramped, if this game is still too easy or feels weird then I will just play without Barbs for my last civ 6 game, about ready to move on to other games like Humankind and Stellaris unless they update the game again.

 

[Socrates99]

Are people not producing units early? I haven't had over the top raid spawns in ages. Chase down the scout and kill it. In Clans mode finding a horse camp is a massive boon because it gives you a perfect unit to chase scouts with.

It definitely hinders the AI though. The AI is too hardwired to go for every wonder early on and it wipes out their ability to respond to threats with units. Personally I hope in VII the AI "conspires" behind the scenes to prevent this. Only one of then attempts any given wonder, no more civs rush religion than the religion cap, etc.

As a player my biggest improvement was learning not to join every race, just the ones I have a chance to win. The AI plays like i did before I learned this lesson. Getting wrecked by barbs is a direct result of this imo.

 

[reddishrecue]

The barbarians and their new improvements have made them a lot stronger and more realistic.
Its like they're starting to speak up like they used to in early civilizations 1 or 2 where a lucky barbarian would ask for ransom for all of your money so that they'll spare the city and they do. They really do only if you pay up. If you don't you get to say 'Do your worst!!' and they would really capture it.
However, unlike the past some of the barb options seem new to me and exciting.

 

[Eva-kun]

AI use to get a combat bonus against barbs in Civ 5, if I remember correctly.

I don't believe they receive one in Civ 6, which they badly need to deal with them. I started turning off barbs myself since they're crippling the AI. Don't mind them blocking my path since I should clear them if I don't want them in my way.

 

[Socrates99]

Could just give them Discipline permanently. Might help, might not. I still think the root cause is Civ VI ai doesn't keep even a halfassed decent standing army.

 

[PiR]

I think in Civ IV or V there were probabilities that barbs would enter your borders, depending on the difficulty. It does not seem to be implemented in VI. I don't think the AI handled barbs well in other titles either, but some settings like this one could change the results.

 

[Socrates99]

I think in Civ IV or V there were probabilities that barbs would enter your borders, depending on the difficulty. It does not seem to be implemented in VI. I don't think the AI handled barbs well in other titles either, but some settings like this one could change the results.

I can't remember for sure, it's been so long, but didn't barbs just wander out of the fog in IV? I remember barbs being one of the few things III did better than IV. In III if you left a camp too long itd turn into a city similar to the free cities in VI and they usually had a pretty sizable army too.

 

[PiR]

I can't remember for sure, it's been so long, but didn't barbs just wander out of the fog in IV?

Yes, there was no camp. But they would attack you or not depending on the diff level: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Barbarian_(Civ4) (at least the animals)

 

[Socrates99]

Yes, there was no camp. But they would attack you or not depending on the diff level: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Barbarian_(Civ4) (at least the animals)

Yeah. In IV barb prevention was all about fog busting. I definitely prefer having a camp or city to hunt down.

 

[PiR]

Yes, me too. Although fog busting can also work in VI, to prevent camp spawn!

 

[Conquistador_514]

I much prefer playing with barbs on, but I'm playing a game now with barbs turned off and I actually lost to the Deity AI twice, which was a welcomed surprise. The human player will not get key Eurekas with barbs turned off and also miss out on era points, it actually makes the game harder which is welcomed. Eventually though, I'm sure that I'll snowball in the industrial or Modern age ( before it could be as early as Classical or Medieval) and the AI will probably lose unless they are too far away and steal a Science win. Still, just that added extra stress and the fact that the AI will have a bigger army and not lose settlers and workers to barbs mean that they remain an existential threat for a part of the game. If anyone has any current mods that enhance AI behavior then please let me know, I know that the DLL was never released since the Devs are rightly too ashamed to reveal how lazy they were with the AI but maybe there are some mods out there. As it stands now, this will probably be my very last game of CIV, unless another update is released, I've been playing since civ 1 when I was in grade 6, but all good things come to an end, ironically I guess that it was the Civilization series itself that couldn't stand the test of time.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I can't remember for sure, it's been so long, but didn't barbs just wander out of the fog in IV? I remember barbs being one of the few things III did better than IV. In III if you left a camp too long itd turn into a city similar to the free cities in VI and they usually had a pretty sizable army too.

I preferr the fog model myself, barb camps are kind of a weird artificial mechanics thing; why exactly did this group of people decide to behave like mindless orcs and that other group became a city state

I much prefer playing with barbs on, but I'm playing a game now with barbs turned off and I actually lost to the Deity AI twice, which was a welcomed surprise. The human player will not get key Eurekas with barbs turned off and also miss out on era points, it actually makes the game harder which is welcomed. Eventually though, I'm sure that I'll snowball in the industrial or Modern age ( before it could be as early as Classical or Medieval) and the AI will probably lose unless they are too far away and steal a Science win. Still, just that added extra stress and the fact that the AI will have a bigger army and not lose settlers and workers to barbs mean that they remain an existential threat for a part of the game. If anyone has any current mods that enhance AI behavior then please let me know, I know that the DLL was never released since the Devs are rightly too ashamed to reveal how lazy they were with the AI but maybe there are some mods out there. As it stands now, this will probably be my very last game of CIV, unless another update is released, I've been playing since civ 1 when I was in grade 6, but all good things come to an end, ironically I guess that it was the Civilization series itself that couldn't stand the test of time.

I think that the ARS mod, which introduces stacking and a movement increase plus a mod that makes the AI more aggressive plus a mod that makes it build a military might make for actual competition

You have to play with the base game and no modes and no barns though, the AI cannot handle any of the new mechanics

Honestly the base game is way better, I found myself not doing stupid gamey nonsense for era score and could actually play out a narrative

 

[ShakaKhan]

I much prefer playing with barbs on, but I'm playing a game now with barbs turned off and I actually lost to the Deity AI twice, which was a welcomed surprise. The human player will not get key Eurekas with barbs turned off and also miss out on era points, it actually makes the game harder which is welcomed. Eventually though, I'm sure that I'll snowball in the industrial or Modern age ( before it could be as early as Classical or Medieval) and the AI will probably lose unless they are too far away and steal a Science win. Still, just that added extra stress and the fact that the AI will have a bigger army and not lose settlers and workers to barbs mean that they remain an existential threat for a part of the game. If anyone has any current mods that enhance AI behavior then please let me know, I know that the DLL was never released since the Devs are rightly too ashamed to reveal how lazy they were with the AI but maybe there are some mods out there. As it stands now, this will probably be my very last game of CIV, unless another update is released, I've been playing since civ 1 when I was in grade 6, but all good things come to an end, ironically I guess that it was the Civilization series itself that couldn't stand the test of time.

Aw!!! I'd say don't give up yet, but if you have other gaming options that are more attractive to you, do what makes you happy. I too am enjoying the game a lot more with barbs turned off (although I have an addiction to societies mode, and when I want the Sanguine I gotta leave the barbs on... At least I got over my addiction to monopolies mode, which is a player crutch. Anyways...)

Here's a thought- I agree that without barbs it hampers the player a bit in terms of missing boosts (military tradition and bronze working for sure, and often archery and military training.) If you turned barbs off but played with zombie mode on, you would still miss these boosts but still have to deal with barbarian-esque issues, although much like barbs, the zombies probably hamper the AI more than they do the player.

Either way, if you're detraction from the game is a lack of challenge and you're finding more of it with barbs off, I'd say give that a little more of a chance. You could couple that with starting the AI an era ahead or so, but the problem there is the same as the problem with most of the increased difficulty stipulations in that they're mostly front-loaded.

 

[Conquistador_514]

Yeah I'm having a better challenge with barbarians turned off because I play on huge map and this way the AI can really expand faster, sometimes too fast. Spawning next to The Romans means that real estate will be hard to get, and the AI can't deal with barbarians at all, It's really a big difference for them, but alas, The AI really is dumb as bricks though,so winning is always possible, even with a horrible start.