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Barbarians per camp.

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by NiceOneEmlyn, Apr 21, 2015.

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  1. NiceOneEmlyn

    NiceOneEmlyn Chieftain

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    I have always been under the impression that a barb camp can only spawn to a maximum of three living barbarians. Recently, whilst playing an island map, I came across a twelve hex island with one camp and four barbarian archers. The island was too small to have ever contained two barb camps and besides I was the first player to discover said Island.

    Has my assumption for the past five years been wrong?
     
  2. binhthuy71

    binhthuy71 Emperor

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    Not sure about the max number of living Barbs that can be spawned. The extra ones on that island may have come over from a camp on a nearby island.
     
  3. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    In my 4 1/2 years of playing Civ 5, I have never witnessed, nor heard about, any limitation on the number of barbs that can be spawned from a camp and alive at the same time. I have always assumed it was an infinite amount if there's room and the camp isn't wiped out.
     
  4. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    It's a limitation only at the moment of spawning. If there are 2 Barbarians within a range of 4 tiles of an encampment, that encampment will not spawn another Barbarian. But since barbarians tend to kinda randomly wander a region, the limiting barbarians already near the camp will wander out of range, a new barbarian will be spawned, then one of the older ones will wander back into range, etc., rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Over the course of a game on a 10-12 tile-size undiscovered island it will not be unusual to see the number of barbarians mentioned in the OP.

    The values quoted are also adjusted somewhat as I recall by whether you have Raging Barbs turned on, and whether the encampment can spawn Barbarian Galleys.
     
  5. ThorHammerz

    ThorHammerz zzz

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    Barbarian Galleys affect this formula only in the sense that they can wander beyond the check-nearby-barbarian range within 1-2 turns :p
     
  6. NiceOneEmlyn

    NiceOneEmlyn Chieftain

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    Thanks very much for the info, this makes sense of my own assumptions, but with an extra dimension to be aware of.

    Many a time I have come across a three to six tile island with three land based barbs already there. I have noticed on these occasions that no more units will be produced, this becomes very important if I want to send a cargo ship past the island, and I have always done so with confidence!
     
  7. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    I don't mean to doubt the knowledge of an esteemed modder such as yourself, but in a recent game as CL's Zapotecs I saw a 4-tile island with an encampment that had all four tiles filled with barbs as well as several barb ships surrounding it. I remember it distinctly because I took Heathen Conversion and was surprised to find that A) my embarked Missionary could convert the barb ships and B) after converting all the barbs on the island, I discovered that they didn't have embarkation and were just sitting there uselessly draining my economy. I wrote about it in some other thread. Anyway, I didn't have Raging Barbs on, so this shouldn't have been possible based on your explanation of the mechanics.
     
  8. NiceOneEmlyn

    NiceOneEmlyn Chieftain

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    Ha Ha! Your four and a half years don't seem to have as much significance as my five years, I wonder why? Like someone else stated earlier in the thread, just maybe a barbarian crossed the sea to get there! I had already looked at all the scenarios that I could think of before I posted, there was no possibility of such a happening!
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I can think of two possibilities that might explain why your experience does not violate the no-spawn-if-two-barbs-within-four-tiles rule. (1) You are using mods (Zapotecs), so all bets are off. (2) Units loose promotions when gifted, so maybe that applies to barbs converted by Heathen Conversion? (But I had never heard of that rule before this thread.)
     
  10. dasaard200

    dasaard200 Prince

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    In many a game on water maps, it takes me a while to clear enough space to get to next island, then drop #3,4 cities, and then build up triremes to escort food ships, working up to Galleasses(G's); (using the Barbie+ mods) to do serious Barbie stomping for cities #5 and beyond .

    The more barbs, the merrier !!; but if you're on a 1 city island, you're in deep doo-doo .

    One quirky game had an 8 by 12 island close by my turf, 3 camps FILLED that island, and almost swamped my island of 2 cities with triremes and shipped brutes, until I got Cbows and Galleasses; then the tables turned. Starting at the pointy end of Mattel Island, I used my G's to clear a LZ to land Pike and Cbows, 4 turns later, city #3, and in 40 turns and 6 more cities later, Mattel Island was clear of Barbies, becoming my major base against the Ottoman .

    Game was : Prince, tiny islands, high sea level, 3 billion years, Raging Barbs, huge map, 8 AI, standard speed .

    SP's were T0, H0-5, L0-5,T1-5, and R0 . This proves that a rock-bottom start is winnable !!
     
  11. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    The "rule" comes from these in the GlobalDefines.xml file:
    Code:
    <Row Name="MAX_BARBARIANS_FROM_CAMP_NEARBY">
    	<Value>2</Value>
    </Row>
    <Row Name="MAX_BARBARIANS_FROM_CAMP_NEARBY_RANGE">
    	<Value>4</Value>
    </Row>
    It is also possible that for very small landmasses Firaxis created a Special Snowflake Rule that ignores these two defines. It is entirely possible, and since I cannot read the dll I have no way to directly investigate that issue from reading the game's code.

    Based on Shaglio's comment upthread I am keeping a closer eye on Barb Spawn behavior in any games I play re: very small landmasses. Especially as this may require me to alter the code within the Barbarian Spawn Increase mod if I can see the same behavior on an unmodded Barbarian Behavior for very small landmasses: or, I may leave well-enough alone, as the quoted behavior is what I would want to see with the Barbarian Spawn Increase mod running.

    The real challenge for all mod-makers is that while there are "Rules" that are "Set to Values" in the XML, there are also a slug of hidden and hardcoded overrides where Firaxis took the quick and dirty route to get effect-X rather than continueing to adhere to the policy of making the game as mod-able as possible. And as time has passed and Firaxis has issued expansions and patches, some things that were originally mod-able are no longer.
     
  12. ThorHammerz

    ThorHammerz zzz

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    I can confirm, the game code does not check (and therefore, it does not care) about the size of the landmass when checking for barbarians around a camp.

    Code reference in
    Code:
    void CvBarbarians::DoSpawnBarbarianUnit(CvPlot* pPlot, bool bIgnoreMaxBarbarians, bool bFinishMoves)
    if anyone is interested.

    Which is why if one is able to set up/compile the .DLL (which is a pain in and of itself), it becomes much simpler and straightforward to add/change whatever one wants (convoluted and/or obtuse Lua workarounds are no longer needed!) :D.
     
  13. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Moderator Action: OPs question is now answered.
    Please take future discussion of challenges creating mods over to the Creation & Customization forum.
     
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