Barbarossa: The War in the East 1941-1945

[Rocoteh]

Barbarossa.
First turn, playtest-report:

Bialystok, Slonim, Brest-Litovsk and Lvov falls.

I try to destroy as many Tank and Motor Rifle Divisions
as possible.
My own losses are:
4xPanzer Divisions
1xPanzergrenadier Division
2xTD Battalions
5xInfantry Divisions
1xJu-88

Soviet air-attacks are furious, maybe to furious.
I think we will have to look that aspect over in version 1.1
Anyway, the opening turn looks very good.

Rocoteh

 

[StoneyCO]

Very sweet scenario so far, it is indeed impressive. I liked TGW, but time between turns was long fo my kind, I guess since there are not 35+ civs. I am only on turn 3, looking forward to getting off work and getting back it tomorrow.

1 note, the workers, should they be able to teraform the land? The only options I get are too either automate, build airfield, and build radar.

One thing I really like is you have to research railarods, I am happy to see that it will be a long time before I will research railrods, I am hoping that it also takes many turns to build a railraod instead of the typical 1 or 2 turns.

 

[Thundercow]

Quite nice. The craftsmanship here is easily apparent.
I also like the terrain set.

However, I have some issues with your tech tree.
Why don't the Germans start with a lot of techs like "Pre War tech". By definition, this is technology that they had at the start of the war.
Why can't they build railroads right away. If you dont' want instant transportation everywhere, then make railroads difficult to build.

I'll be back with more comments when I've gotten further into the game.

Kudos

 

[Adler17]

I just saw this scenario. I have not much time to play now, but the time I have...
First turn:
I play as Germans and want to liberate the world from the Bolshevist scum called Stalin . My very first assault takes Brest- Litowsk. No casualities yet.
At Riga I loose my first unit, an infantry division but I´m in front of the city gates. I have to stop now.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

Thank you for the comments.

My reflection on changes to 1.1:

German Air-units should start Elite.
A number of 88 AA should be added for Germany.
These should have high AA-power, since Soviet air
is to powerful now.

Rocoteh

 

[No idea]

This is a really good scenario! I'm playing as Russia and the on turn 3 the Germans have taken 3 cities, but they were all taken on the first turn. The Germans keep on sending tanks in without backing them up with infantry. Also, I don't think the Germans should be able to build the Fw-190 at the start because they wern't used in the East until 1942 or 43, and why don't the Russians have bombers at the start except the il-2? The Russians had a bomber force in real life.
I love the way you've done the big rivers BTW, thanks for the great scenario!

 

[Rocoteh]

No idea,

Thank you.
I agree with you concerning Fw-190.
Now there is a what-if situation concerning Fw-190, that
I think should be changed to the historical in version 1.1
Overall I think that most changes in version 1.1 will
be related to air-units.

Rocoteh

 

[Luddi VII]

Wow!!! This is amazing!
I'll try it immediatly!!

 

[laisak]

Yeat another Finland edit by laisak:

- Tornio not Torino (Didn't know Italy was such a large country
- Tampere not Tampera
- Ryti should be President not Premier (had been since 1940)
- Fascism? Even Anarchy would be more suitable. Finland is a republic.
- I'm sure I've seen a Finnish jäger unit somewhere. The modern one just looks too well equipped.

USSR:

- Kalevala in East Karelia? Sure a lot of the folk tales collected by Elias Lönrot to his book "Kalevala" were from that area, but there wasn't a city or even a town called that. I understand the need for a city there. The map shrinks the region quite a lot at this point.

This map is the best I could find scanned from the troop positions(June 1940, but you propably have more precise information) and it also shows potential alternative for "Kalevala". Just don't ask the Russian names, because I have no idea. :-(
(A lot more picture on the site, check it out)

 

[emzie]

I'm wowed by the load times. It was less than thirty seconds on my machine (P4 2.17 / 768 RAM).

I don't know much about the Continuation War (the second between the Soviets and Finland -- happening in this scenario) nor the Winter War (1939-40) but Finland seams underpowered -- not in numbers but in strength. The Finnish troop stats are barely better than mine (maybe you should add a few ski divisions... movement of two?) As the Soviets, I was able to crush Finland and the Germans that were destined Murmansk; the Finns did much better than that.

You're right that this is better than TGW. I'm still drooling

 

[Rocoteh]

Luddi VII,

Thank you!


laisak,

Thank you for the info and the map.
Corrections will go into version 1.1.

augurey,

We will look over the Order Of Battle for
the Finnish forces berore the release of 1.1.
Maybe some fortifications should be added also.
I am glad to hear that you liked the scenario.

Rocoteh

 

[Kristian95]

I just wanted to say I'm happy to see a thread full of good spirit and positive moods always nice to see people behaving nice to one another (I am not being ironic).
I look forward to trying the scenario when I have some more time available for it!

 

[Klyden]

My time for Civ is very limited these days, but I could not pass on this one.

Both sides loaded up fast and smooth and the map and tech tree look really nice along with the units.

Some things I noticed:

Tbilisi can't support the population it has (max 9 it looks like).

DB-3 bombers for the Soviets were available at the begining of the war and were progressively replaced by the IL-4 in the mid war phase. I don't know how the unit mix is, but suggest since the Soviets do not have a bomber available to be built at the start of the war that the DB-3 become available and the IL-4 take the DB-3 place. (Although the IL-4 was just starting to become available at the beginning of the campaign as well).

Soviets should be forced to pass on the first turn to allow the Germans to move first. A Soviet player could make a strategic withdraw and the first German offensive would not be very productive. This should also help facilitate the Soviet airforce getting pounded on the ground on the first turn by the Germans.

Something I noticed is that the Soviets just have the beginning infantry unit. No conversion to a "guards" unit is possible nor are there any future upgrades. Everything is mechanized/tank. This is very historically incorrect as much of the Soviet army remained on foot for much of the war. "Guards" status was also an important distinction of the campaign and would add flavor to the game I think. Suggest a "Guards infantry" developement set for late 1941 to allow an upgraded infantry unit. Such a unit probably needs to be a bit expensive and the upgrade costs a bit expensive as well as it took awhile for more units to achieve guards status. Status is only one part of it. Guards units got more and upgraded weapons and were generally superiour to their regular army counterparts.

I look forward to having some time to give this a test run on both sides as it looks very exciting.

 

[Sarevok]

I just wanted to say I'm happy to see a thread full of good spirit and positive moods always nice to see people behaving nice to one another (I am not being ironic).
I look forward to trying the scenario when I have some more time available for it!

Yeah, it makes me feel good too and encourages me considerably to continue with this project with a large amount of care.

The sad thing is I start school on the 25th...

Ill give people some time to play, so 1.1 wont be released for a week at least. In the meantime lets discuss some new units... What should be put in? I heard an 88 Flak Gun but what else should be in before I get them in.

 

[Sarevok]

My time for Civ is very limited these days, but I could not pass on this one.

Both sides loaded up fast and smooth and the map and tech tree look really nice along with the units.

Some things I noticed:

Tbilisi can't support the population it has (max 9 it looks like).

DB-3 bombers for the Soviets were available at the begining of the war and were progressively replaced by the IL-4 in the mid war phase. I don't know how the unit mix is, but suggest since the Soviets do not have a bomber available to be built at the start of the war that the DB-3 become available and the IL-4 take the DB-3 place. (Although the IL-4 was just starting to become available at the beginning of the campaign as well).

Soviets should be forced to pass on the first turn to allow the Germans to move first. A Soviet player could make a strategic withdraw and the first German offensive would not be very productive. This should also help facilitate the Soviet airforce getting pounded on the ground on the first turn by the Germans.

Something I noticed is that the Soviets just have the beginning infantry unit. No conversion to a "guards" unit is possible nor are there any future upgrades. Everything is mechanized/tank. This is very historically incorrect as much of the Soviet army remained on foot for much of the war. "Guards" status was also an important distinction of the campaign and would add flavor to the game I think. Suggest a "Guards infantry" developement set for late 1941 to allow an upgraded infantry unit. Such a unit probably needs to be a bit expensive and the upgrade costs a bit expensive as well as it took awhile for more units to achieve guards status. Status is only one part of it. Guards units got more and upgraded weapons and were generally superiour to their regular army counterparts.

I look forward to having some time to give this a test run on both sides as it looks very exciting.

Alright, now we have some more unit suggestions

Ill do those changes, but I will let Rocoteh answer the question concerning the OOB because he did that. However, I do recall Rocoteh saying that the Soviets had some... 22-25,000 tanks in their army of 1941 although most were knocked out quickly.

When we have all the units ready, we can start talking about stats.

 

[Sarevok]

Luddi VII,

Thank you!


laisak,

Thank you for the info and the map.
Corrections will go into version 1.1.

augurey,

We will look over the Order Of Battle for
the Finnish forces berore the release of 1.1.
Maybe some fortifications should be added also.
I am glad to hear that you liked the scenario.

Rocoteh

I do remember something called "The Mannerheim Line" but that was in the winter war. Can that apply to Barbarossa?

 

[laisak]

Finland seams underpowered -- not in numbers but in strength. The Finnish troop stats are barely better than mine (maybe you should add a few ski divisions... movement of two?) As the Soviets, I was able to crush Finland and the Germans that were destined Murmansk; the Finns did much better than that.

That's true. Although Soviets had superior equipment, Finnish troops had better knowledge of the terrain and were more mobile.
They could be compared to commandos of that time period.
Good example was the Swedish speaking infantry regiment 61. They were a heroic regiment especially good at scouting, often operating deep in the Soviet controlled areas.

Also Finland had the weather gain. Soviet troops weren't that well equipped for arctic conditions and the winters during the war were grueling. In the Winter War Soviets were practically frozen in their positions.

 

[Sarevok]

That's true. Although Soviets had superior equipment, Finnish troops had better knowledge of the terrain and were more mobile.
They could be compared to commandos of that time period.
Good example was the Swedish speaking infantry regiment 61. They were a heroic regiment especially good at scouting, often operating deep in the Soviet controlled areas.

Also Finland had the weather gain. Soviet troops weren't that well equipped for arctic conditions and the winters during the war were grueling. In the Winter War Soviets were practically frozen in their positions.

Perhaps finnish troops should be better?

 

[Rocoteh]

I just wanted to say I'm happy to see a thread full of good spirit and positive moods always nice to see people behaving nice to one another (I am not being ironic).
I look forward to trying the scenario when I have some more time available for it!

Kristian95,

I do agree 100%.

I am looking forward to future comments from you.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Klyden,

The Soviet Air Order Of Battle was much more complicated
than in version 1.0. My intention is to change that in
future versions. I also hope unit-creators are interested
to help with that.

Guards units:
I say yes to that.
Some unit-types was left out by intention to make
the scenario more clear.

On the Soviet Tank-force June 22 1941:
Yes it numbered nearly 25 000 tanks.
It was larger than all other Tank-forces in the world combined!

Rocoteh