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BARON DUIN HALFMORN does not have hero promotion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Heretic, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Heretic

    Heretic Chieftain

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    But he's regarded as a hero unit.

    Is it intended or...?

    PS. When I can build knight, I can't bulid other horse units until I have 4 knights of national limit. This is quite annoying, can it be fixed ?
     
  2. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

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    It's intended. The Baron has the potential to become an entire army; giving him 100 xp without risk would make that too easy. For the sake of balance he has to risk himself in combat.

    He's not the only Hero without the promotion; Lucian also doesn't have it, for more or less the same reason - having it would be too powerful.
     
  3. Heretic

    Heretic Chieftain

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    Oh, thanks for the quick answer, I see. But heros have level 4 command promotion would have 70% to convert enemy unit in a combat, such as Sphener. It's quite similar, though I never try.
     
  4. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Only the disciple heroes can get command promotions, and only sphenor can get the 4th level. It can be more powerful, depending on who you convert, I agree, but I think the Baron is easier to get... although not by too much.
     
  5. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    They are all called heroes, but they are really just unique. I think all heroes that are set as civilization hero have the Heroic promotion, can't think of one that doesn't at the moment (well Loki doesn't of course).
    (Lucian isn't Doviello's hero)
     
  6. Brokenbone

    Brokenbone Chieftain

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    Barnaxus hasn't got the "Hero" promotion, he has to be risked in order to get the Combat I thru V, so that all the Golems in the empire can get Empower I thru V. Again, balance I suppose.
     
  7. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    Yeah forgot about Barnie. Almost never play them. (Does the dragons have Heroic? I don't have the game available atm so can't check)
     
  8. Demus

    Demus Chieftain

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    none of the dragons have heroic afaik. The mithril golem obviously doesn't, dunno about meshabber though
     
  9. readercolin

    readercolin Chieftain

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    Afaik, Meshabber doesn't. Mithril golem doesnt (also doesn't have unitcombat, so it cannot gain promotions). Also, none of the dragons have it (otherwise Acheron would be a real pita...)

    -Colin
     
  10. benana

    benana Chieftain

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    Mithril golem would gain empower from Barnaxus though :)
     
  11. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Chieftain

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    Acheron always seems to end up killing enough units to gain ~10 promotions before I'm ready to take him on these days...
     
  12. Azhral

    Azhral Let's get Tactical!

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    Command IV can be only be gotten by units with the Order as a religion. Sphener meets all of the requirements easily, but so do the Priors, the Order Arch-Priests.

    Dragons have a Unit-type, not sure what it is. All Dragons can gain Xp. The Mithril Golem can't, but Lurch players can get him boosted using Naxy, the Pallens Engine, Blasting Workshop, and the Ardularia Chamber. Hidden Mithril Golem with Fireball? Yes please.

    Dunno about Meshabber. I think he can, but I'm probably wrong.

    And the Baron with Hero would make him a game winner, easily. Whoever got him would win, hands down. Unless he got fried by Chalid or something before he goes on the rampage.
     
  13. readercolin

    readercolin Chieftain

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    Dragons have the Beast Unit type, allowing them to be captured by any unit with beast mastery (aka, ranger, who has taken subdue beast). They can also be captured by a unit with command promotions.

    Meshabber can get promotions, he is a Melee Unit (so shock and stuff affect him), but he does not have the hero promotion.

    -Colin
     
  14. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    Druids with the Order religion can also gain Command 4, as it only requires Order religion + Channeling 3, and disciple unit class.

    None of the high base strength units (riders of apocalypse, dragons, avatars) have the hero promotion.

    Ironically, I was able to add enough equipment to my baby Acheron (19 strength) to make him truly powerful (33 strength) ... with Netherblade, Orthus Axe, Athame, Staff of Souls, and War ... meanwhile Mardero had command 3 and crown of command.

    Just for fun I mopped up aka declared war on the last remaining civilization ... with ONLY acheron ... and with 33 str plus drill 4 (eventually) he finally felt like a respectable monster ... like he finally reached the dragon-hood he truly deserved. Tis unfortunate that the AI gained him a few extraneous promotions beforehand however, So I had to level him a bit more than normal. Still, the tech lead really helped as well. So Acheron with 33 strength finally felt like a dragon among archers, warriors, freaks and puppets. I might should try out the Monstrous Creature mod, but I digress.

    I've found diseased corpses and beasts of agares are usually the best tools for killing the Riders of the Appocalypse. They have access to formation 2 (120% total vs mounted) and incidentally also have access to shock 2 (120% total vs melee) so I took one of each. Unfortunalely a dwarven slinger killed my melee slayer, because I fielded him alone vs the dwarves. However my Beastmaster defended against about 20-30 dwarven warriors in one turn all by himself. (they were all RoF'ed warriors, and he was protecting a large stack of cats with Drill 2, which might have slightly damaged the incoming warriors.

    It would be nice if there was some expensive ritual to grant Baron the hero promotion ... perhaps by sacrificing a religious hero or somesuch ... or just sacrificing something fairly significant but still not too expensive. After all, you had to complete the ritual first, and you'll have to wait for that experience to slowly accrue.
     
  15. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    that's messed up
     
  16. Luckmann

    Luckmann Esusian Epicure

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    How about some fresh, sweet Acheron blood? :lol:
     
  17. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

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    ...dear god, can Acheron be made into a dragon-werewolf if you beat him with the Barron?

    That would be awesome.
     
  18. readercolin

    readercolin Chieftain

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    Using FFH's manner of werewolves, if baron halfmorn defeated acheron, there would be a chance you would get a ravenous werewolf from it.

    However, using FF's mechanic, you would get a reduced strength dragon werewolf (i'm not sure how exactly they gain strength in FF, but thats a different story). I actually managed to get a werewolf margaland in this manner.

    -Colin
     
  19. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Chieftain

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    I am rather dissapointed by the Baron Duin Halfmorn and his werewolves. They have an expensive tech to research (Feral Bond) which is not really useful unless you want to use druids or research towards beastmasters. Then the Baron costs 500 hammers to build. He slowly recruits werewolves by a tortuous process (75% chance to create a Ravenous werewolf which has to win a combat to become a Blooded werewolf). That gives a strength 8 beast unit with 2 moves at a time when the player can usually field champions with iron weapons. Occasionally a Blooded werewolf becomes a Greater werewolf - which is quite useful at strength 11 and 3 moves but this is at a time you can build or upgrade units to beastmaster. All the werewolves have to gain their experience from combat and most buffs don't work on them so they are difficult to develop. Catapults and damage spells like maelstorm or fireballs can help them gain experience.

    But the real question is why bother with werewolves if you can build champions? The Baron and his werewolves take experience that your champions could use on their way to being upgraded to immortals, paladins or phalanx for powerful late game units. The amount of effort to get a few greater werewolves does not seem worthwhile, which is a pity.
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Well, the AI usually has far more units than a human would, so free werewolves you did not have to build can really help rip through their cannon fodder.
     

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