Battle of the Browsers!

[LLXerxes]

At my school, in the Windows 2000 lab (they used to have XP but our county's schools, despite our county being one of the richest counties in the state, are poorasses, so they were REPOED). We're stuck with Internet explorer. it sucks NO FREAKING DUH. Everybody at school thinks it's aweosome, and the best browser. But 1 girl in my class, and me, think Firefox is better. So I'm going to the computer specialist at my school to ask for a better browser, preferable Firefox. Are there any others?
I have Firefox. It's great. So is Mozilla, just not as good.
I've tried Opera. If the tech specialist doesn't like FF i'll jilt for that. It's not as good, but it's better than most of them.
Internet explorer sucks. Period. Infact, I think we shouldn't use any Microcrap products cept for word adn powerpoint.

Any others that you can recomend? I've heard of others, but they're not as good (so i've heard)

Plus i'm compiling a list of reasons Firefox is better. or Mozilla or Opera... any help?

remember, this is for all the kids in my school!

 

[Gainy]

Internet explorer sucks. Period.

What makes you say this?
People post fairly frequently about problems with mozilla/firefox/whatever, I can't remember ever seeing posts about problems with IE.

I can't think of one good reason you can give your tech guy to switch.

I think we shouldn't use any Microcrap products

I'm pretty chuffed with windows xp, I think it's rather good. I also don't see what's wrong with any of the programs in microsoft office.
Moving away from their 'boring' programs, they also made such games as Age of Empires 2, which I believe you like

I've never understood why everyone hates microsoft. World is a better place with them

 

[Chairman Meow]

I can't remember ever seeing posts about problems with IE.

Well, looking through the past couple pages, I found these that are either about IE, or related to it (such as spyware), and there are probably some that I missed...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107875
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107900
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105215
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105295
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104155
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102048
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=102653
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=101558

Also note this poll. Though, being an informal poll, it is not necessarily representative, it does seem to indicate that many people (perhaps the majority) who read the Computer forum use Firefox. Therefore, it stands to reason that if the majority use Firefox, then they will post about problems with the browser they use, rather than the one they don't use.

edit- I'm still disappointed that nobody selected Konqueror in that poll...

 

[Gainy]

That looks impressive, but clicking on those links brings up 1/2 about spyware.
I have always used Internet Explorer. My computers have always run wonderfully. I have had the internet for ~10 years. I have never had any problems with spyware.
So is it IE's fault? No. It's the users who are muppets

The rest of the threads involve features of IE, activated by users of IE. Again, not the browsers fault - or a fault within the program. It's the user.

The threads I have seen about mozilla/Firefox have been related to the program's dodgeyness/incompatability. I'm not saying they are bad programs, I just fail to see why 'everyone' loves them and slates IE repeatedly.
As I said, those threads prove nothing about IE being faulty/bad.

Therefore, it stands to reason that if the majority use Firefox, then they will post about problems with the browser they use, rather than the one they don't use.

Yer, but in order to change to Firefox, they would presumably have to have problems with IE in the first place? Hence you should see as many (if not more) posts about IE being bad. I also would presume that everyone who has posted here does not view this forum regularly, at least half will have just posted when they have the problem (and then buggered off again)

 

[Chairman Meow]

As I said, those threads prove nothing about IE being faulty/bad.

The fact that IE, without significant tinkering (which few "average" people would be willing to do), allows spyware in means nothing?

 

[Gainy]

I have no anti-spyware programs. I have no firewall (besides that intergrated with msoft software). I have no virus scanner. I have no pop-up blocker (besides that integrated with msoft software). I have not tinkered with any settings on my computer. I have no spyware problems

If you go on websites and click on pop ups saying 'OMG WTH YOU'VE WON $1,000,000,000,000!!!!! CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS', and get spyware, I wouldn't blame Internet Explorer.
Not that i'm saying that's the reason everyone is getting spyware, but I never do that, and I never get (noticeable) spyware. Saying this, I don't even get pop ups...

I don't know anything about any other browsers than IE, but I doubt they are completely foolproof with regards to spyware.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Of course, there will always be idiots. But, there are holes in IE that don't require an idiot in order to be exploited... things like the Downloader-Ject virus (I think that's what it was called...) a few months ago, in which a virus targetted the IIS webserver on legitimate sites, causing it to target Internet Explorer, having it download the virus. Also, some web advertising companies use ActiveX to place spyware on computers. That said, I'm sure there are holes in Firefox that could be exploited. For example, the versions before 1.0 allowed any website to install XPI extensions, which, basically, was just as bad as ActiveX on IE. 1.0, though, uses a whitelist for websites that can install XPI extensions. Not idiot-proof, but better than before.

 

[Gainy]

a few months ago, in which a virus targetted the IIS webserver on legitimate sites, causing it to target Internet Explorer, having it download the virus

So what you're saying here is that someone specifically programmed a virus to attack IE? That isn't a flaw in IE, that is just some loser with too much time on his hands. I'm sure that chap could've written a program to attack Firefox just as easily.
Plus that was probably before IE was updated, because IE blocks anything that tries to automatically download. However you have the option to download it. This applies to Activex as well, IE blocks it from downloading.

You have still to point out any reason which makes IE as awful as some say, and any reason that alternative browsers are better

 

[Serutan]

Having IE as a prime target for virus writers makes me avoid it. It's not IE's fault per se, but it is nevertheless
a problem with IE.

 

[Chairman Meow]

That isn't a flaw in IE, that is just some loser with too much time on his hands.

Actually it was a flaw in IE that the virus exploited, and IIRC, it took Microsoft about a month to release the patch for it. In fact, the virus was stopped from spreading not by the patch, but by the fact that the server that the virus contacted to infect computers was taken down.

It would be all well and good if there were no virus-writers, but there are, and myself, I prefer to do two things about it: 1) make sure the software I use it adequately secured (i.e. on IE, turn ActiveX off for all but Windows Update, and things like that, and on Firefox, turn off XPI installs), and 2) I prefer to use products that are less targeted, simply because they're easier to defend. However, I'm not going to say that IE has no use; it has gotten a bit of a bad rap, though much of the criticism is deserved.

 

[EquinoxOmega]

I personally prefere Opera. But Firefox and Morzilla are also acceptable browsers. IE isn't bad either but it is Microsoft(greates intelligence agency in the world). Netscape Navigtor is the worst browser.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

If you have properly 'defended' (shall we call it that?) your computer, IE is fine. As long as you aren't inept and click on random links from email or on the internet, you're computer will be fine. It's not about not using IE; it's about whether you're computer and you are protected. Firefox isn't a miracle that makes your computer get better.

Now stop ranting about Microsoft. Just because you've had problems with it doesn't mean that it's all Microsoft's fault. Maybe it's your fault if you get (a) virus/spyware/trojan/adware/whatever else you don't want, rather than blaming it on Microsoft. Microsoft won't do everything. You are required to do your part on safening your computer.

That said, can you give a list of reasons why, quote, "Internet Explorer SUCKS"? Just because Firefox has more features, as long as the computers are protected, (which they should be), it doesn't really matter.

And "for the kids in my school", does the browser really matter that much?

 

[Tomoyo]

My main problem with IE is that all the pop-up blockers that I tried for it are not very effective... With Mozilla, pop-ups (and take-over ads) are no problem. That's why I use Mozilla Firefox.

 

[LLXerxes]

If you have properly 'defended' (shall we call it that?) your computer, IE is fine. As long as you aren't inept and click on random links from email or on the internet, you're computer will be fine. It's not about not using IE; it's about whether you're computer and you are protected. Firefox isn't a miracle that makes your computer get better.

my computer was protected. i used IE, got boatloads of crap. reinstalled my system, got Mozilla and got less crap.

Now stop ranting about Microsoft. Just because you've had problems with it doesn't mean that it's all Microsoft's fault. Maybe it's your fault if you get (a) virus/spyware/trojan/adware/whatever else you don't want, rather than blaming it on Microsoft. Microsoft won't do everything. You are required to do your part on safening your computer.

Yes, I was insecure. I'm not going to become paranoid about my comp like that. That was when i bately knew how to download. all i remember getting was 1 program, that found a way to sneak past all spyware programs.
Then I reinstalled. It took 2 months because Microsoft sent us faulty software stuff, and didn't do that much cooperation when we called. I got it back, opened IE, boom, spyware, reinstall. My parents explained to me, IE locked up it's thingy in the Netscape war and couldn't improve it. It just stinks.

That said, can you give a list of reasons why, quote, "Internet Explorer SUCKS"? Just because Firefox has more features, as long as the computers are protected, (which they should be), it doesn't really matter.

do i really have to answer this?

And "for the kids in my school", does the browser really matter that much?

well, if this is a school computer for research and activities for the little kids, i guess so...


I honestly don't know why I crap my time away at Comp Talk. I get badgered and end up, not with any new information but "stop being an ass, Xerxes". this forum isn't where you be a naggy ass, it's where YOU HELP PEOPLE. I'm sick of getting the same BS from here.

@ any mod, shut this thread down. this has gotten nowhere, like everything else I do here...

 

[Thrawn]

A lot of the incompatiblity issues people talk about with ff/opera come down to ie not supporting the latest web design standards, and a lot of people only test their websites only in ie. Thus, sites display incorrectly or don't work at all in ff/opera, while displaying perfectly in ie. I've had experience with this when testing my own websites, and had to change the code so it would work in all 3.

There have also been documented flaws in ie that either have not been patched, or were patched several months after their discovery. I know of at least one flaw in ff that was patched within days, weeks at the latest.

Depending on how much freedom the kids at your school have on the net, it probably would be a good idea to install an alternative browser, as their's bound to be some idiot who clicks on everything he sees.

 

[Padma]

This makes me want to dig up the article from a few months back, where the Federal Government (probably MS's biggest champion) said to NOT USE IE! Internet Explorer has huge security holes (not as many in XP-SP2, or at least that we know about ) that make it a disaster waiting to happen.

Personally, given Microsoft's attempts to wrench standards to its own way of doing things, and its proven track record as an evil monopoly, I would say you shouldn't even use Word and Powerpoint. OpenOffice.org can do anything a school needs to do, is compatable with MS Office, and is free as in speech as well as free as in beer.

I would try to convince your tech specialist to go for FF, or Opera if necessary.

@Chairman Meow: If that poll had been multiple choice, I would have added Konq, but since it was for the browser you use most....

 

[steviejay]

I used IE because its what everyone uses, then I became a computer student and was made aware of the others. I use Opera, and IE is nothing compared to it.

 

[Babbler]

I use firefox and I seen little problems with it, only MS's website and Gamespot give trouble.

 

[MarineCorps]

This makes me want to dig up the article from a few months back, where the Federal Government (probably MS's biggest champion) said to NOT USE IE!

I remember that. I bet M$ wasn't happy in the least about that.

 

[Padma]

Well, it *did* spur them to beef up security.