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Battle Tactics

Discussion in 'CivBE - Mod Development' started by Bobert13, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Bobert13

    Bobert13 Chieftain

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    Feb 25, 2013
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    So... I was thinking about what could be added to the game to add some depth to combat in general. For some strange reason, Ultimate Risk from "Risk: The Game Of Global Domination" (for Playstation) popped into my head. In Ultimate Risk, players have Generals, forts, capitals, and a system with offensive and defensive tactics chosen via cards. Upon initiating an attack, the attacker would be allowed to choose from three randomly selected tactic cards available. Then the defender would choose a tactic. The cards chosen would have effects on the outcome of the battle. What tactics were available was dependent upon whether or not a given army was led by a General, what rank the General was, and rarely on situation (these were mostly for defenders; for example, if you were nearly surrounded and in rough terrain while defending, you would often get the Ambush card which was both very strong, and had a high chance of killing the opposing army's General).

    I think with some work, it may be possible to implement a similar system in Civ BE, adding another potential layer of depth to the game. Obviously, there's some technical hurdles to leap (how to interrupt combat's before they're determined, how to get the AI to even recognize that it must "choose" a tactic much less getting it to be proficient at doing so, would I use temporary promotions to sway the outcome of battles or what?, how to determine what tactics should be available to any given unit at any given time [unlocked via techs? unlocked via unit promotions?] etc., etc.). I feel this could really enhance multiplayer games though I personally haven't played MP too much in Civ in general. I even went as far as to think up cards that would minimize combat effectiveness for a given unit's attack but may allow a second unit attacking that turn to be extremely effective should the enemy not chose the right counter to the first attack (now the AI portion of this has to be even more "intelligent" :lol:).

    Anyways, this is obviously still in the "brainstorming" phase of development, and I'm still quite busy working on my other projects but I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see how the community here felt about it. If anyone has any ideas or is willing to lend a helping hand (in whatever capacity you're capable of; be it a tip for a gameEvent, a code snippet, or even help developing and implementing) don't be afraid to speak up.
     
  2. Potenzo

    Potenzo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
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    Have you played Endless Space?

    If not, you might want to check it out before you invest a lot of time and effort developing these ideas, just because it'll be easier to steal theirs *ahem* gain inspiration from theirs. :mischief:

    It's only £8.50 on Steam until Dec 2nd, and they use a similar "playing card" mechanic for battles, which is quite developed. Plus, it's rather a nice game, at least until you overcome the AI.
     
  3. Wardly

    Wardly Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
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    How would you intercept before combat begins? Currently we really only have access to the BeginCombatSim and EndCombatSim which isn't when things are calculated but rather when the beginning of the combat animation. which means the outcome has already been calculated. So any bonus you add to the units would have to be before the player even attack an opponent.

    I'd be interested in any other way of catching a hook or something before an battle is calculated if you know of one. It could come in handy with some ideas i have.
     
  4. Bobert13

    Bobert13 Chieftain

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    I wonder if there's any way to intercept the function that left click itself has when you click to attack. It's got to be in the UI Lua somewhere, no? That would still only be half the battle though as I'd then have to find a way to affect the outcome (probably through temporarily applying promotions).
     
  5. Wardly

    Wardly Chieftain

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    Nov 9, 2014
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    Actually going that route you could look at unitPanel.lua, i believe it handles on mouse over effects, panel updates and all that stuff which is just before clicking. Not sure if you could stop any current action though. But there might be a way you can give/remove a bonus in there before the battle actually kicks off, then add/remove once it's completed maybe. A lot of tinkering would need to be done to test reliability and capability though.
     
  6. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

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    Aug 15, 2003
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    1,438
    I know some people have managed modding the combat engine with Civ5, but that involved dll mods. You might want to look at Gedemon's mods. whoward might also know what can be done without the dll as he's one of the modders with the best knowledge of the Civ5 dll (and CivBE dll is probably very similar)
     
  7. darkedone02

    darkedone02 The Suggestor

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    Location:
    Louisville, Kentucky
    When you say "battle tactics" Ogre Battle 64 and Final Fantasy Tactics popped into my mind, I wish there was more of an RPG feel when it comes down to games like this just to change the whole entire way of fighting in the game, removing the generic combat we have to "rank or feed" system.
     
  8. Bobert13

    Bobert13 Chieftain

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    Now you sir, bring up a really good point. I'm not entirely sure of exactly which RPG elements you'd like to see, but upon reading your post, the thought of "Hero" units (think Warcraft 3 / Dawn Of War 2) immediately came to me. I'm not entirely sure of what I'd intend for Hero units but obviously, active and/or passive skills beyond "+10% combat bonus" come to mind. Leveling them with combat XP would possibly even allow choices for Hero progression which is where this idea really starts to get interesting... Feel free to elaborate on your ideas or to make suggestions as far as what RPG elements in particular you'd like to see.
     
  9. V3N0M

    V3N0M Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2007
    Messages:
    139
    What about buildable "legendary units" like in the legends of revolution mod for Civ 4? They were unique historical units like the 300 spartans or the Bismarck that were treated like wonders, kind of.
     

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