Bazaars, Camels and Oil

[raider980]

We're going DomV so I like the Honor idea. We probably won't have enough faith for Pagodas and Holy Warriors; the units are really expensive. So maybe Tithe + HW and hope for happy temples to be there on enhancement. (Or the reverse, happy temples first and HW on enhancement).

 

[Nizef]

So Honor it is then. Let´s go Pagodas after all, we might need the extra happiness.

 

[vadalaz]

T50: Opened Honor, founded Shinto with Tithe and Pagodas. Two barb camps revealed nearby, both look like potential CS quests so I send our archers to deal with them. PtP Quebec because they have an easy quest.
Interim: Tiwanaku falls and Shaka starts razing it, Mausoleum finished in a faraway land.

T52: Mecca grows to pop 6.
Interim: Pachacuti offers friendship. I decline.

T53: Granary finished in Medina, started Monument. Our second Gold is improved, no lux trades available so I just sell it to Wu for 7 gpt.

T54: Shaka has an excess Salt so I trade our last copy of Gold away. We can connect another one soon. Shaka also wants 3 gpt to sweeten the deal.

T55: There's a barb-infested island SW of Mecca apparently. Pacha has a worker in Machu but there's no safe way to steal it atm. The Cattle tile in Machu's third ring should work well once the city's borders grow there.

T56: Mecca finished Water Mill, started Monument. Started chopping a forest.

T58: Cleared southern barb camp because otherwise one of Dido's scouts would. Finished Currency, started Sailing. Mecca finished Monument, started Petra.

T59-60 rollover: The Inca lose their capital. Found Carthage for Quebec City. China sends us another trade route.

@beetle is up next. Notes:

- We're on track for a T68 Petra. The build time should go down one turn when the Mine is finished.
- My plan for Medina was to time the Monument with Sailing and start building a second caravan there, working Cotton and two hills at pop 3.
- But maybe we need units instead? I was hoping the Incans would last a bit longer. They do have at least two warriors and a CB in Machu.
- Quebec City or Cape Town might target the empty barb camp, so I suggest we don't clear it just yet.

Spoiler Screen :

 

[Grendeldef]

I think it's safe to assume that Shaka is coming especially when the deal had to be sweetened so we could/should prepare. If it doesn't happen for some reason I won't be disappointed. If the rules allow co-DoWs I'd try to get Shaka with us against Dido without actively doing anything against her. Atm we don't much need her for anything but a war against Shaka is in territory I'd rather avoid if possible.

 

[vadalaz]

Yeah joint DoWs are fine. Our caravan to Wu ends in 3 turns, so there will be an option to send it elsewhere and ask Shaka to co-DoW China if he doesn't want to fight Carthage. I'd rather defend Mecca vs China than Medina vs the Zulus.

 

[Grendeldef]

TR to somewhere where it spreads religion as well would be prefable even if it means losing a G or two and yes, I also prefer a coop with Shaka against Wu over solo effort vs him. Few Spearmen would be lovely as well since we don't have any horses. Any pre-XBow ranged against Impis will be useless anyway.
I'd also plant 3rd pre-NC city, coastal, by the river SE especially if it can hard build Library in time. I assume we need something more substantial than rowing boats to meet & kill some/all of the rest of unkown fellow travelers. Some serious lack of hills but if we'd save a couple of forests there'll be some hammers to work with. 4th city somewhere up North would be nice but I dare not atm. For happiness the NE Marble should be in reach of a GG bomb fairly shortly.

 

[beetle]

Looks like @Grendeldef only played 9 turns. That is okay, since 0-9 works just as well as 1-10.

I only just remembered that Chariot Archers upgrade to Camel Archers, but we have no Horses.

Machu is holding up better than I expected. I did try and get some vision on the fighting, and am pleased to report that (1) I did not spot any Impi, and (2) Shaka has less of carpet than I was expecting.

T061 Colossus has been build in a far away land!
T062 Sailing concludes, start researching Calendar. Medina grows to pop 3, finishes Monument, and starts Caravan. Mecca send food Caravan to Medina, so it can work two hills. (Caravan in 12 turns now, 28 if it had to feed itself!)
T063 Wu builds Terracotta Army. Scarcher takes still-empty barb camp (no quest spawned) because Shaka’s Scout was about to snag it.
T065 Calendar unlocked, start on Writing. Start down right side of Honor.
T067 Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!
T068 Petra finishes! (Good job everyone!) Mecca starts on a Settler, four turns. Petra is amazing.
T069 Writing unlocked, start on Bronze Working. Hopefully we will have better luck with Iron than we did with Horses. Longswords can fort up against Impi just fine.

@raider980 Caravan (in Mecca, from Petra) is waiting for you to assign. I was trying to unfog Cusco with Ninja, but that might not be possible. The Archer on coastal Gold tile S is waiting on barb galley to sail by.

I think settler should go N to flat Desert near Warrior, to lock up a monopoly on Gold. (Don’t laugh, tile is not so bad! Sheep in 2nd and 3rd rings, Wheat in 3rd ring, Incense [new lux to us] in 2nd ring, and there is some forest to chop.) I think Wu will spoil the spot if we let her. As @Grendeldef noted, third expo to SE to get us some Horses. That spot is less time sensitive.

 

[Grendeldef]

Looks like @Grendeldef only played 9 turns. That is okay, since 0-9 works just as well as 1-10.

Yeah, I noticed that but it didn't feel necessary for me to wait for the religion discussion to be over for just one turn. I'm fine with the lack of one turn and I had absolute trust in Vadalaz' stamina to play an extra turn if needed. I didn't even check where Vadalaz ended his turn but I think the cut point can be at least a turn's worth flexible. Go Petra, Go Us Go.

The northern location is roughly where I planned the 4th city but was afraid of Shaka. Even a mediocre city by a mountain few more nearby to prevent a proper siege of the city would've been my preferable location & way to defend against Shaka.

 

[raider980]

Woo hoo, we got it! I don't think I've ever gotten Petra except on like King or lower.

Regarding next steps.

• I was considering a city up north too; but I was thinking right on the desert hill sheep next to the mountain. Sheep aren't that good even when pastured so I don't mind building cities on them (I think the yields end up the same later right?), plus we pick up a third sheep east of the mountains. That flat desert would just be a little roadbump for Shaka. But is now the time for that city? It would make Wu mad; do we need her as an ally for awhile? Of course we may lose that spot to her also if we wait. If we do ask Shaka to DoW her I guess that won't matter.
• When do we ask Shaka to go to war with us against Dido? I'm not sure of the particulars of what makes an AI accept that offer besides army strength. Do we need to send that Caravan to him before asking? Do we need to wait for him to peace out with Pacha?
• What's the faith needed for the next Prophet, am I going to need to choose our enhancer?

 

[Grendeldef]

Quebec wants a TR so send one there ASAP. It fills pretty much all our holes of need atm.

• I was considering a city up north too; but I was thinking right on the desert hill sheep next to the mountain.

That's the place I had in mind or if the city was settled post Pikes I'd go further North by the river & mountain. I'd still like to have a seaside city as well well before Astronomy.

 

[vadalaz]

I assume we need something more substantial than rowing boats to meet & kill some/all of the rest of unkown fellow travelers.

Probably, but I think we should still get a trireme soon here. Meeting even just one more trading partner would be good and there's also a landmass SW of Mecca.

For happiness the NE Marble should be in reach of a GG bomb fairly shortly.

Yep, and we can grab Quebec's Horses with that citadel as well if we don't manage to secure an alliance with them. Or even take the Pearls and Horses with a citadel and have the borders grow to Marble naturally. Or place a city there for the Marble. Or kill Quebec?

Edit: pff it looked like a 2-horse tile but it's actually just one horse.

 

[beetle]

I'd still like to have a seaside city as well well before Astronomy.

Why do we need another coastal city besides Mecca? We seem to be going hybrid Honor/Tradition, so even three cities would be okay with me. One city for religion. Another for Horses. The one N to control the mountain range is gravy. Mecca’s hammer output is off the chart. I think we just turtle until Chivalry and then start dancing with Shaka.

What's the faith needed for the next Prophet, am I going to need to choose our enhancer?

I think 300, which takes us no time at all. For the Enhancer, how about the one that makes cities softer? As needed, we stack a GPr on the front line.

 

[raider980]

Ok, here we go.

T70. 1200BC. Send Caravan to Quebec City for quest. What decides if a TR gives religious pressure? Seems pretty random to me, unfortunately, the QC one does not.

Interim. Oh snap. China has decided our 3rd city location for us. They build a city on floodplains north of Mecca.

T71. 1160BC. discover Cahokia; Mercantile, Irrational. Finish Settler, start Trireme.

Interim. Cape Town now ally of The Zulu, it declares war on Pacha.

T72. Medina pop 4.

T73. 1080BC. Exploring and working.

T74. 1040BC. Discover Trapping > Masonry. Trireme sets out, start Library. Wtheck, Shaka blocks our Scarcher with yet another city. Oh well, he'll head back to become a Scompbow. Shaka also covets our lands.

Interim. Samarkand and Carthage now allies.

T75. 1000BC. Medina finishes Caravan, starts Library. Send Caravan to Nobamba for 4spt and 12 Shinto pressure. Found Damascus.

T76. Inca have a settler out; a sacrifice to Shaka I presume.

T77. Mecca finishes Library, starts Bazaar. Road to Medina complete.

Interim. Great Wall built in a far away land.

T78. Not much.

T79. What? How are we unhappy? I really hate the happiness mechanic in Civ 5. We had like 7 happiness just a few turns ago. Pachacuti founds Tiwanaku 2. Can see another CS border.

Interim. Great Prophet is born. Medina now has 5 pop; not sure how that happened, last turn it said 5 turns to grow. Now we get Quebec City Pearls so no longer unhappy.

Somewhat uneventful set of turns after the excitement of Petra. Hope I wasn't supposed to beeline Camels, but they look far away and I figured we might need some defense before that so went to Comp Bows. Wasn't sure whether to start converting our riverside hills to farms but it said it would only be +1 food not +2 like I thought so I started building a farm on floodplains instead. We need another worker for our 3rd city now though, perhaps he should have gone down there.

Spoiler T80 North and South :

 

[beetle]

Pity about Nanjing. I feel like I should have at least seen that coming. I thought I left the Warrior with decent line-of-sight. If nothing else, I should have been able to push Nanjing north or west one more hex. Not too bad though, as Mecca still has almost all the tiles in her 3rd ring.

Damascus location seems to have picked ocean over floodplains. Probably doesn’t matter, gets the Horses either way.

What decides if a TR gives religious pressure? Seems pretty random to me, unfortunately, the QC one does not.

A TR gives religious pressure if the city is more than ten hexes away. QC is exactly ten hexes from Mecca, so it is getting religious pressure from Mecca already, and so the TR does not display any.

 

[Grendeldef]

Why do we need another coastal city besides Mecca?

We don't but the tunnel vision me only after Vada's stint properly joined reality and accepted that Mecca is actually a seaside city

My capitals are never by the sea. In general, though, I avoid situations where only one city is capable of something and capital should never be one so in this case I'd have wanted a seaside city even if I had realised that Mecca actually was one. Primary shipbuilding city should not be the capital even if in our case it probably does have sufficient hammers to do that, too.

 

[Nizef]

Two seaside cites are a good choice from the perspective of internal TRs as well.

 

[Grendeldef]

Few notes for current situation:

- Damascus needs a Worker and those Horses
- Medina should be working Mt. Sinai now that the Prophet has arrived
- Cahokia has a barb q and there's another CS nearby - send a Ninja the to help the Scout
- Holy Warriors is still available - I'd take that and Religious Texts
- I don't see Shaka an immediate threat atm as Pacha is somehow hanging on to Machu and if that stays a coop war with Shaka against Wu as soon as Chivalry would be nice. Nanjing has a lux & fpt and soon acts as a religion spreader
- Shanghai has 4 (+1) Horses
- after China Machu will be a nice addition especially if Pacha will hold to another city while we'll be marching towards Zululand
- we should be selling Wu as much Iron as possible when it's available
- I'd build a Settler before starting NC and plant it right after NC by the sea & Oasis NE - this is the untameable Liberty part of me

 

[Nizef]

So let´s see:
t80 Met Zurich for 15 gold (mercantile, friendly). They have a barb camp quest but it is too far for our troops. Enhanced religion with Religious Community and Itinerant Preachers for extra production and gold generation.
t81 Bazaar is done in Mecca. I start on a Colosseum. Construction is done and I start on a 6 turn Philosophy.
t82 The barb camp bothering Zurich has a H-A inside and our Scout desides not to stay there to hang around. Ninja is upgraded to CB. Dido proposes a DoF and I have an uneasy time deciding on that but I turn her down. As "revenge" she builds Oracle instead.
t83 I sell the extra copy of Gold to Dido for 7 gpt.
t84 Renewed the Gold / 7 gpt to China and also renewed the Gold / Salt deal with Shaka. However, he didn´t demand the extra 3 gpt to sweeten the deal anymore. A barb Galley attacked our Trireme and we took 17 damage.
t85 Mecca starts on a Worker (two turns!). And our Trireme makes a counter attack and took moderate damage. Mecca up to pop8.
t86 Our Trireme hunted down the fleeing Galley and finished it off for sweet 7 culture. An unknown civ lost its capital. I choose Military Caste as our next SP. Trireme was upgraded with Boarding Party. Bought the Horse tile near Damascus.
t87 Library done in Medina and Worker is ready in Mecca and Philosophy is researched. I bought a Library in Damascus and started on a 6 turn NC in Mecca. Our "navy" returns to Mecca to heal. Start to research Horseback Riding.
t88 Parked Ninja in Medina for the extra happiness & culture. Upgraded the Archer in Damascus to CB.
t89 Damascus in pop3 and a Worker started to improve the horses there. Resent the ITR to Medina. An unknown civ founded a religion. Tiwanaku is about to fall.
That´s all, folks.

 

[Nizef]

Sorry about the Holy Warriors, I didn´t notice your post before playing my turns.

 

[Grendeldef]

I disagree that the camp is too far besides the Ninja should be outside our borders hunting these camps anyway. The homeland security can be done by someone else and Mecca can kick out a unit in every 2nd turn if need be. Also, Shaka doesn't clear camps unless it's on a path to somewhere else and I doubt Pacha has units to spare. It's not on the border of Cahokia nor does Zurich seem to have anything worth protecting on the land so probably no one is too keen on clearing that. Moreover Cahokia especially is in a fantastic spot for an ally. It has a shared border with Shaka so he will go to for it, it's hard to attack with melee so it might take a while capping and when it does fall it's a BFF with unique CS lux after liberation