Bazaars, Camels and Oil
- Thread starter vadalaz
- Start date
Gren's plan sounds good to me. For units to gift to Quebec I'd use one of the triremes and spend 45 production on another one. We also have Adam the Warrior, but I think it'd be better to upgrade him than gift him away.
Shanghai, Beijing, Guanzhou and even Nanjing all look like decent cities to keep. For happiness we can citadel out to Marble from Medina and Gems from Guanzhou. Cape Town also wants Gems and a Great Scientist - two easy quests, so it shouldn't be difficult to ally that CS when the time comes to DoW Shaka.
Should we send a food Cargo Ship to Damascus at some point and have that city run guilds? It doesn't have that many useful tiles anyway.
Shanghai, Beijing, Guanzhou and even Nanjing all look like decent cities to keep. For happiness we can citadel out to Marble from Medina and Gems from Guanzhou. Cape Town also wants Gems and a Great Scientist - two easy quests, so it shouldn't be difficult to ally that CS when the time comes to DoW Shaka.
Should we send a food Cargo Ship to Damascus at some point and have that city run guilds? It doesn't have that many useful tiles anyway.
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Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
The same idea in other words: we'll DoW Wu in ~6 turns hopefully with enthusiastic co-operation of Shaka after we have first allied with Quebec again. To ally Quebec with only 250G we need to gift it 2 units - the cheaper/useless the better. The gifts have 3 turn cd and take 3 turns to arrive so gift one unit now, build something in next 3 turns and gift that when the cd is off. Obviously use may use existing obsolete unit as well.
The Samarkand siege is for XP only. Prepare for Nanjing when we'll DoW, puppet it and then we'll go for Shanghai.
With any luck we'll get Guilds from Wu but other than that the food TR could be useful. Atm we aren't having too many TR options anyway.
The Samarkand siege is for XP only. Prepare for Nanjing when we'll DoW, puppet it and then we'll go for Shanghai.
With any luck we'll get Guilds from Wu but other than that the food TR could be useful. Atm we aren't having too many TR options anyway.
Looking at the save file, I am surprised to find Education in the research queue. I thought the plan was to get Navigation first, so we can steal Astronomy from Carthage?
I vote that we agree to cooperative DOW from who ever asks first.
As for the guilds, since we presumably are going Autocracy, do we want to pre-build GAWM in multiple cities?
Agreed, hammer ship to Damascus and food caravan to Medina makes sense.
What’s the SP plan? I would like to finish Tradition sooner than later, but I think we should open Rationalism when we can, to unlock Porcelain Tower.
I vote that we agree to cooperative DOW from who ever asks first.
As for the guilds, since we presumably are going Autocracy, do we want to pre-build GAWM in multiple cities?
Agreed, hammer ship to Damascus and food caravan to Medina makes sense.
What’s the SP plan? I would like to finish Tradition sooner than later, but I think we should open Rationalism when we can, to unlock Porcelain Tower.
raider980
King
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2010
- Messages
- 735
Can someone explain why we want Shaka to joint DoW Wu with us? This is for my own learning because I wouldn't do that in one of my games because my fear would be that he brings all his troops closer to us. Is the reasoning that the joint DoW will prevent him from attacking us while we're trying to fight China? And its worth it even if he takes Machu and is closer to us?
I just reflexively went for Education. I'm not at home now but the tech trees I'm looking at only say you need Education for Astronomy anyway. I don't remember how many turns to steal from Dido but I doubt we can get in position to steal Astronomy regardless. Or maybe we try to steal Compass? Or Education itself.
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Most importantly it prevents Wu from bribing Shaka to DoW us. Minor reasons: it cuts off one avenue of her income, it keeps her units less focused on us, it may help us snatch a city/cities without spreading our troops that much - Machu would be a welcomed one, to create general havoc etc. I'm here to offer a genocidal option - Vada & Beetle in contrast are the voices of reason 
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You are correct on both points! I might messed that up when I went back to pick up Iron Working.
@Grendeldef what is “CSa” and “BA”?
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
"BA" here refers to Buenos Aires while "CSa" looks like a typo - I couldn't quickly find if and where I've used that
I did use "CAs" as plural of Camel Archer and depending on context "CS" is either City State or Civil Service. Acronyms are so wide spread and lovely confusing that I assume since the land mine ban our Eastern border is now covered with signs of acronyms in cyrillic instead of mines.As it appears I'm next so what do peeps want with Guilds? China surely has them but those are also quickly build in Mecca and less so in Medina. Otherwise I'm hopefully soon making mince meat out of the little green men of Wu.
While on the subject of typos, the D goes before the L in my username
I suggested Damascus for guilds earlier because
1) Mecca has lots of great tiles to work, so it's a bigger sacrifice to assign citizens to specialist slots there
2) Medina has no food to support specialists
3) Damascus has lots of food and not much else, so it's a good candidate to run lots of specialists. The problem is low production, but cargo ship hammers can fix that, and then the TR can eventually be reassigned to send food instead
So my vote is: take Shanghai and Beijing, see if those cities keep the guilds after capture. If not, build them in Damascus.
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Bloody hell, sorry mate but that's not a typo but just me being illeterate - apparently I haven't been reading that but slowly digesting it over the years. A very specific case of word blindness. In next post I assume Beetle also points out that his nick here has actually been Cockroach or Cricket for 20 years and I've misused that as well.
On similar note local city of LaHTi which is very well known wintersport city for those following CC-skiing & ski-jumping etc, hosted several World Championships, applied for Olympics few times and so is always spelled LaTHi abroad - few exceptions are occasional Swedes & Norwegians. Doesn't matter who, where or in what context and has been the case for decades. I assume those in North America apart from Thunder Bay has never heard of the city and will continue their life peacefully even after this.
I think I'd better make a fresh pot of coffee before tackling Wu. In current form I'll prolly gift Medina & Damascus to Shaka and lose Mecca to Samarkand.
...
As always as soon as I'm ready to start there's an interruption - now it's a UPS truck on my yard. It seems that AIs coop capabilities extend to well beyond the current map.
On similar note local city of LaHTi which is very well known wintersport city for those following CC-skiing & ski-jumping etc, hosted several World Championships, applied for Olympics few times and so is always spelled LaTHi abroad - few exceptions are occasional Swedes & Norwegians. Doesn't matter who, where or in what context and has been the case for decades. I assume those in North America apart from Thunder Bay has never heard of the city and will continue their life peacefully even after this.
I think I'd better make a fresh pot of coffee before tackling Wu. In current form I'll prolly gift Medina & Damascus to Shaka and lose Mecca to Samarkand.
...
As always as soon as I'm ready to start there's an interruption - now it's a UPS truck on my yard. It seems that AIs coop capabilities extend to well beyond the current map.
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I am all for fighting Wu before Shaka, with or without Shaka’s help. Just mind not to trigger the “move or dow” demand before you are ready.
FWIW, I usually type valdalaz or vladaz or something similar before (usually) making the correction. I do like that board now promotes the use of @Nickname !
Thanks for the explanation. From the context, I should have been able to figure out that CSa was a simple typo here.
FWIW, I usually type valdalaz or vladaz or something similar before (usually) making the correction. I do like that board now promotes the use of @Nickname !
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Finally. One of the most exiting though nothing much happened 10 turns I've played. It wasn't enough that UPS interrupted but more Amazon packages came by mail. Anyway, T140 it is and it didn't go as I planned nevermind wanted but capping Shanghai & Beijing should be relatively simple forward process as Wu has ran out of melee units apart from one Pike near Guangzhou.
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* BA seems to be going for Guangzhou and has enough firepower to actually cap it if it wants it.
* BA also wants protection against Shaka but I'd leave that later unless Shaka becomes immediate threat - well, Shaka could be said to be always an immediate threat but let's say even closer to a DoW either way
* Missionary near Cape Town is heading to Zurich to finish the job but it prolly is enough if two nearby cities are converted for Zurich to flip in time - the CS units nearby aren't without friends
* Antwerp wants a TR so we should give it one
* Dildo offered peace - 27 gpt & 2 luxes which seemed a tiny bit harsh
* Dido is playing bounce with CS allies so throwing some cash to Cahokia and/or Zurich might make sense if we had money at some point
* Medina expands in 12 turns and by then we'll have 3rd GG so moving one to Medina for bombing the Marble seems reasonable
* there're obsolete roads on Wheats between Mecca & Nanjing. I was building a road from Mecca to NW to the existing Shanghai-Nanjing road
* Shaka isn't too keen on this war either but I'd keep my eye and a capping unit or two for liberating Machu even if it means killing off Wu
Spoiler :
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* BA seems to be going for Guangzhou and has enough firepower to actually cap it if it wants it.
* BA also wants protection against Shaka but I'd leave that later unless Shaka becomes immediate threat - well, Shaka could be said to be always an immediate threat but let's say even closer to a DoW either way
* Missionary near Cape Town is heading to Zurich to finish the job but it prolly is enough if two nearby cities are converted for Zurich to flip in time - the CS units nearby aren't without friends
* Antwerp wants a TR so we should give it one
* Dildo offered peace - 27 gpt & 2 luxes which seemed a tiny bit harsh
* Dido is playing bounce with CS allies so throwing some cash to Cahokia and/or Zurich might make sense if we had money at some point
* Medina expands in 12 turns and by then we'll have 3rd GG so moving one to Medina for bombing the Marble seems reasonable
* there're obsolete roads on Wheats between Mecca & Nanjing. I was building a road from Mecca to NW to the existing Shanghai-Nanjing road
* Shaka isn't too keen on this war either but I'd keep my eye and a capping unit or two for liberating Machu even if it means killing off Wu
Attachments
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T140:
T142:
T143:
T144:
T146:
Notes and discussion:
- We've been unhappy for a couple of turns, so I've prioritized non-food tiles and the cities are stagnating. We'll finish a Courthouse in Nanjing and connect Marble next turn, then we should select food tiles and grow again
- We can citadel out to the Gems near Guanzhou for some more happiness but it'll take a while to chop the jungle
- Social Policy available. How about Patronage, then going down its left side? It's not Rationalism, but it still has a bit of science and potentially quite a lot of happiness
- If we keep working the Workshop specialist in Mecca, we'll get a Great Engineer in 4 turns. If we do go Patronage, we can try to engineer Forbidden Palace, although it's a bit dicey at this point
- Tech steal from Shaka in 14 turns. Ulundi has a zoo, so we could try stealing Printing Press, but I don't know if we can get both Machinery and Physics in time for the steal, unless we switch research now. Then again, the spy might die anyway and Astronomy would be pretty good to have
- Our army is close to Carthage so we might as well take it
- Shaka's having trouble with Machu but we should still keep an eye on it
- Bought Oasis in Medina. It's a 3f/3g tile that will pay for itself eventually, and it enables the option to citadel Marble.
- Bought a Caravan in Mecca. I'll send it to Antwerp for its quest and it'll partially pay for itself as well
- Traded Incense and 2 iron for Citrus with Shaka. We'll need the happiness soon
- Pledged to protect Buenos Aires, let's just revoke as soon as possible and be done with that quest
- Medina starts University
- Stole Banking from Dido, next steal in 33 turns. Too slow, so I move the spy to Ulundi to see if that's any better
- Quinquereme spotted near Mecca
- Shooting Shanghai
- Caravan to Antwerp
T142:
- Hit Cahokia with Shinto once, converting 5 citizens. It'll flip soon.
- Still shooting Shanghai, it will fall next turn
- GG spawns, sending him to Medina for the Marble.
- Caravan to Quebec ends, I send food to Nanjing
- Made peace with Monaco
T143:
- Annexed Nanjing, started Courthouse, bought a Pagoda
- Captured Shanghai
- 500 gold to Cahokia to ally them
- Mecca finishes university, starts Workshop
T144:
- Bringing a couple of Camels back to Damascus to kill the Caravels
- Shooting Beijing
- Killed both Caravels. Damascus a bit below half-health.
- Citadelled Marble
- Gold + 2 iron <> Salt with Shaka. We're getting 8 happiness from him atm
- Compass finished, started Astronomy
- Mecca finishes Workshop, starts Lighthouse
T146:
- Missionary finally converts Zurich
- Damascus finishes Aqueduct, resumes Workboat
- Captured Beijing. No guilds there.
- Mecca finishes Lighthouse, starts Trireme
- 250g to Zurich to ally
- Mecca starts Writers' Guild, Damascus starts Artists' Guild
- Moving towards Guanzhou
- Captured Guanzhou
- 250g to Quebec, last turn of money quest
- Mecca finishes Writers' Guild, starts Camel Archer
Spoiler Screen :
Notes and discussion:
- We've been unhappy for a couple of turns, so I've prioritized non-food tiles and the cities are stagnating. We'll finish a Courthouse in Nanjing and connect Marble next turn, then we should select food tiles and grow again
- We can citadel out to the Gems near Guanzhou for some more happiness but it'll take a while to chop the jungle
- Social Policy available. How about Patronage, then going down its left side? It's not Rationalism, but it still has a bit of science and potentially quite a lot of happiness
- If we keep working the Workshop specialist in Mecca, we'll get a Great Engineer in 4 turns. If we do go Patronage, we can try to engineer Forbidden Palace, although it's a bit dicey at this point
- Tech steal from Shaka in 14 turns. Ulundi has a zoo, so we could try stealing Printing Press, but I don't know if we can get both Machinery and Physics in time for the steal, unless we switch research now. Then again, the spy might die anyway and Astronomy would be pretty good to have
- Our army is close to Carthage so we might as well take it
- Shaka's having trouble with Machu but we should still keep an eye on it
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
I seem to remember that there's Ivory to South of Beijing within reach of a GG bomb though Dido also has Ivory but I'm not if Carthage has it.
Via BA to Carthage and to Ulundi eventually was my rough plan ahead. Shaka's cities near Machu didn't have horses and most likely the cities are crappy so before Industrial I see no point going that way. I'd much rather just Liberate Machu & and have friendly trading partner and a buffer.
I didn't build any replacement Triremes as we didn't have much to protect from sea so I saved those hammers for Galleases. Kick out one for each city and they should be fine with assstance from a CA or two.
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Hmm, there's a Trireme in the pic - did I build that?
Apparently not.
Via BA to Carthage and to Ulundi eventually was my rough plan ahead. Shaka's cities near Machu didn't have horses and most likely the cities are crappy so before Industrial I see no point going that way. I'd much rather just Liberate Machu & and have friendly trading partner and a buffer.
I didn't build any replacement Triremes as we didn't have much to protect from sea so I saved those hammers for Galleases. Kick out one for each city and they should be fine with assstance from a CA or two.
--
Hmm, there's a Trireme in the pic - did I build that?
Apparently not.
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Nice job taking care of Wu! I thought she would last longer.
Is this the same war with Dido or a new one? I thought we made peace at one point, or am I imagining that?
Working on my turns now. I agree about liberating Machu (if I have the chance).
I would rather work on Tradition or Rationalism over opening yet another tree.
Is this the same war with Dido or a new one? I thought we made peace at one point, or am I imagining that?
Working on my turns now. I agree about liberating Machu (if I have the chance).
I would rather work on Tradition or Rationalism over opening yet another tree.
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raider980
King
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I really want Machu, its an awesome city. But I agree that liberating it makes the most sense.
I open Patronage a lot, it really helps keep those CS allies longer so I'd be in favor of that. Plus, as soon as Dido and Shaka are gone, we can get every CS on our continent. I don't see any point in going back to Tradition, we're past most of its benefits. So if its only between Tradition and Rationalism, I 100% say Rationalism.
I open Patronage a lot, it really helps keep those CS allies longer so I'd be in favor of that. Plus, as soon as Dido and Shaka are gone, we can get every CS on our continent. I don't see any point in going back to Tradition, we're past most of its benefits. So if its only between Tradition and Rationalism, I 100% say Rationalism.
I think it is worth finishing out Tradition if only to unlock GE faith purchases.
- T150 open Rationalism
- T152 take worker from Samarkand
- T153 liberate Machu, recalling Pachacuti; use GG to claim Gems near Guangzhou; Dido coming in with a small fleet of Caravels
- T154 Astronomy unlocked; start on Steel; upgrade Trireme; GE Born
- Interstitial: Dido offering Wine for peace; meet far-away Byblos; Dido comes round the horn with a Frigate — if she had held back with the Caravels, we might have been in trouble
- T155 Shanghai finishes Circus, annex and purchase Pagoda; Beijing is building a Bank, blah
- T156 use GG to capture Ivory S of Beijing; 1st double-tap CA online
- T157 taking shots on Carthage
- T158 Steel unlocked, start on Machinery; start building Armory in Mecca
- T159 Dido southern forces wiped out
- Interstitial: Ashurbanipal (far away) finds us
raider980
King
- Joined
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- 735
Random thoughts.
- Awesome, liberating Machu. Did you snipe it from Shaka?
- Wow, you got Carthage into the yellow with just two CAs?
- What is Shaka doing with that Settler? I'm going to have to block that thing, we don't have OB with him do we? I bet he's trying to settle on the river around that Wine or whatever it is.
- Assuming I take Carthage, are we stopping there and making peace? Or are there other Carthaginian cities we want?
Yes, it was a close thing. The terrain makes it hard to shoot at (especially from the south).
Yes, but the one has logistics. And that was three turns of shooting.
No doubt he will settle it 4 tiles from some other city. PITA. No, we do not have OB with him.
I would like for us to start on Shaka sooner than later. OTOH, it will be a drag having Dido denounce us all game long. So I am in favor of wiping both her and Shaka off the map.
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