Bazaars, Camels and Oil

T180: Shooting Umgung. Reassigning citizens.
T181: Captured Umgung. Spotted a Zulu caravan in our lands and a lonely GG near Machu. Killed the general, will plunder TR next turn.
T182: Shooting Mecca. Citadelled Citrus.
T183-184: Shooting Ulundi.
T185: Captured Ulundi. It has Notre Dame but not Chichen, which seems to be in Nobamba. Shaka was offering 5 cities for peace last turn, I check to see if he wants to give up Nobamba, and he doesn't, so the war will continue. Bought Cloves from Gajah for 5 Horses, happiness still at a comfortable +17.
T186: Killing units near Nobamba.
T187: Shooting Nobamba. Wine, Cotton, 9 gpt <> Sugar with Monty for a WLTKD in Mecca. We're getting Cotton back in 5 turns and we'll get an extra Wine with a Bazaar in Carthage.
T188: Citadelled Copper for some WLTKDs and CS quests. Captured Nobamba, not a great city but has some useful buildings and Chichen Itza.

We're getting Industrialization next turn, so I make peace with Shaka and take 2 cities (liberate Tiwanaku and raze one useless city), 11 gpt and 3 Coal from him. This puts us at a net total of +50 gpt with other civilizations, Industrial era limit, gives us instant access to factories and denies them to Shaka.

T189: Industrialization. We don't have instant Coal other than the 3 from Shaka, but we can connect more near Guangzhou and Ulundi, and either Medina's or Quebec's borders will grow to another Coal tile eventually.

Offered DoF to Pachacuti, he accepted. Sold him Salt for 197 gold. Trying to get enough gold to buy 3 Factories one turn before the next policy. Spotted a Zulu Rifleman.

5 Iron <> Nutmeg with Gajah.

Spoiler Screens :


Notes and discussion:

- I left the decision of where to send the new spy to @beetle
- Same for in which 3 cities to buy the factories
- Saving the GW and GA for World's Fair
- Next policy in 3 turns, 3150 gold is needed for 3 factories. Mecca's been building Wealth for a little bit to make sure we get enough gold to buy factories in 2 turns and have the option to take a level 2 ideology tenet as our next policy. Unless we want Secularism or something else first.
- Speaking of ideology, which one are we going to follow here?
- Let's replace the hammer caravan to Damascus with a hammer Cargo ship
- Timing looks good for Sci Theory spy steal from Ashur
- Some of our cities asked for Wine and Cotton for WLTKDs, we'll get Cotton back soon and connect Wine with a Bazaar in Carthage
- Didn't build National Epic because I zoned out and annexed Guangzhou too early. Forgot that captured cities never have monuments
- Islam missionary is still just exploring. Might just delete him to stop wasting gpt though.


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I'd hard build Factory in Mecca, buy 2 & save the 1050G for something else. Buy the CSs with coal for example.

Or if we do buy 3 Factories let them be somewhere else than Mecca, bomb the Nongoma coal and if we buy a hill in Mecca it can build a Factory in 4 turns.

Ashur has 2 Coal from Panama and no surplus, isn't building a Factory, XBow in the capital so he may not have Indust yet but Archa, SciT & Rifling, Monte has Rifling and Indu(Archa) while Dido has Archa (Indu). Dido has Coal in Kiev but only 2. Monte & Ashur may have other CS allies with coal, though.

None is hitting Modern in five turns so I assume we'd be first to pick even then. Monte will take Autocracy and Ashur Freedom and Dido prolly, too given the first choice. I'd go for Order anyway but if we get 2nd pick Autoc would be fine and if dropped to 3rd I think Order would still be virgin territory - most likely even if only got the 4th pick.


Speaking of coal I'd plant that Medina GS in Guangzhou Coal just for giggles.

And now back to sanding window frames.
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I agree building one factory, buying two. Even though we are going DOM, is Freedom okay with folks if it mean one more free Tenet?

Also noting that we have to go back for Cusco. I agree that getting the timely Coal was worth pausing the war.

I can live with giving up Tradition. We got the only policy we really needed.
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T190 send spy to Nimrud; purchase factories in Medina and Damascus; send Caravan to Panormus
T191 Montezuma builds Red fort; Ife has conversion question, so that is where I am sending GPr; plant GS on desert near Mecca; sending missionary to convert Umgungundlovu and Ulundi; sending GG to capture Wine S of Carthage
T192 sell caravan and start building cargo ship in Mecca; buy 3rd factory in Beijing
T193 We are 1st to Ideologies, so Autocracy it is! Futurism, Industrial Espionage, Total War; send TR to Jakarta
T194 getting coal from Cohokia, so start building Factory in Mecca; use GG to capture Wine; upgrade Ninja
T195 do 3:1 lux trade w/ Ashurbanipal for Silk, since we have spares; WF in three turns, so that is determining what I put into the build queues
T195 Architecture unlocked, and Porcelain Tower is available; Umgungundlovu and Ulundi are now following Shinto, so missionary moves towards Babanango
T196 steal Scientific Method from Assur, move spy to Samarkand; Assurbanipal complains about the spying, I tell him to suck it up
T197 Annex Umgungundlovu and buy it a Pagoda
T198 buy Coal tile for Median; WF vote, all cities have 1 turn on build queues
T199 WF passes and we are in pretty good shape; propose Arts Funding

@raider980 you are up. DOW at your leisure. I didn’t restart the war because I would not have had enough turns to do much.

I believe we are well positioned to win WF. Natural GA will start soon.

We have four factories online, and two Coal mines being built.

When the GW spawns, I think we should burn the guild and rebuild in Damascus. GA and GW on deck. SS shows CA ready to go. Metallurgy just unlocked.

I think the Missionary should back up the GPr for Ife’s conversion quest.



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Hmm, why do we still have 10 CAs on starting continent while we're not in war with anyone there?
Speaking of which, what is the war plan going forward. Who we going to attack next? Seem beetle was thinking of taking Cusco but Grendeldef is thinking of heading to the other continent to take someone out there. I haven't looked at the save yet; who is weakest, what are our relationships? Someone mentions above Monte likes us I think. So do we stay friends with Monte and attack Ashurbanipal? Who else is over there, Ram and I forgot the other person already, someone red.

Edit. Oh, Monte is redish; Gajah is the other. The Indonesian capital is probably coastal so we can leave that until we get some a Navy. Surely we're not going to be able to take the whole world with Camels, when do they go obsolete? I was thinking of leaving Cusco for last maybe. Have we crippled Shaka or could he rise up later?

Edit 2. Looked at the save. Additional questions:
  • We just finished Metallurgy, what's the tech path next?
  • What's that GPr doing?
  • It'll take 20+ turns to get our CA army to Assyria, that continent is far away. And the city of Ashur is already defense 61. What does that mean for our war effort.
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I presumed we were ready to fight Shaka again. I think the other continent calls for Frigates and Privateers, and I don’t seem any point in doing Cusco last, except for the lultz. Ashurbanipal seems like a fine target, but there must be some civ to recall, so we might want to scout more first.

GPr only has one charge. I was swimming him (and the missionary) to Ife for a conversation quest.

For tech path, I vote Military Science so we can upgrade the CA as the promotions become kind of useless. The idea being to wait on WWI era tech for the other continent. Flight for Prora sooner than later.

After taking Cusco, we could chill until Clauswitz, then try an wrap up the game in 50 turns?
Why would we like to fight Shaka instead capping cities on the other continent? Declaring & capping has only negative effects including by Pacha and none of the cities can offer anything we can't GG bomb. I thought the CAs started a massive swimming school right after the peace deal. Basically we've wasted 15 turns of their effective time in the world stage. We can cap Cusco in 3 turns at any point when needed.
CAs need to be either shooting something or moving to next target. Not doing either is a massive loss of xp and makes the need of more advanced units far more likely.

Hiawatha is somewhere between Monte & Ganjaman so get OB from Monte since he doesn't have religion, scout a suitable landing spot, select a hop city, coastal prefered for easier capping and harbour, start killing stuff, cap the city and expand from there. Doesn't matter who it is as long as it's not Monte.

Tbh, this is funny :) It never even occurred to me that we made with peace just to hang around.


It'll take 20+ turns to get our CA army to Assyria, that continent is far away. And the city of Ashur is already defense 61. What does that mean for our war effort.

Takes a little longer to cap than if it where 16 - anything less than 100 is fine and even then we need to mop the units around. Start worrying when a city has a six-pack of planes or Bombers arrive. By that time all CAs will/should have double cover and they can take a few hits.
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Nah, don't be - this is actually bloody brilliant :) This calls for genuine adaptation to other peep's play style which is hard to come by going solo besides the game was won by capping Shanghai - the rest is just a matter of execution which can be done in multiple ways. On the other hand this shows clearly my lack of imagination. I had a tunnel vision with my plan with minor variations available but this was beyond that. Live & learn.

And I still think that the CAs should do some serious swimming.
Few thoughts after an eventful evening in the EUROs.

- Scout near Lampang heading to Mogadishu & surroundings
- Prophet heading to Jakarta's general area to scout Indonesian lands
- CAs heading somewhere between Jakarta & Almaty - ~14 turn trip. Arrival a bit later than expected but it's what it is
- upgrage 2 Pikes to Lancers or build 2 & join the CA herd
- with current rate we're overkilling WF so Mecca can build PSchool meanwhile, or something else or ...
- Chemistry - start Rifling - finish Archaelogy within 11 turns
- Clausewitz is fine as next policy
- allying Mogadishu would be excellent
- a couple of boats located to south of Jakarta
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Three policies to Clausewitz. But WF gets us one free.

What wonders does Shaka have? Asking for a friend.

As far as warmonger penalty goes, we probably have none at the moment, except with Dido. We can afford the hit from wiping out Shaka. Leave him one city if you like.

We recalled Inca, so that is permanent friend status there.

If we don’t knock Shaka off the continent, he will DOW Inca, and now that Inca has two cities, they will be a significant distraction to defend.

Dido might DOW Inca as well, but if don’t give her OB, she probably cannot do anything. AIs love to pick on whoever is at the bottom of the leader board.
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Ok, here it is. I'd committed to my plan before reading the two latest posts, three different opinions on what to do is very interesting. So we are going to be fighting Assyria! Our camels are swimming there now. There is a nice landing zone near Assur where there will be plenty of room for our camels to maneuver. It was a logistics nightmare trying to get off our continent through all the AI units though.

T200-T209. Moving camel army.

Interim. Ram denounces Assyria, that's good. Ram likes our proposal to the world congress, that's good too. Many trade deals expire.

T201. Trade Dyes for Gold with Monte. Trade a bunch of luxes for gpt because we're way below our 50gpt limit for Industrial.

T203. Discover Chemistry, Golden Age dawns naturally. Discover Mt. Sinai near Jerusalem. WLtKD in Guangzhou.

Interim. Monte attacks Monaco; I have to say its ok.

T204. I revoke a bunch of PoPs so it doesn't happen again.

T205. Ram enters Industrial. We win WF. Adopt Mobilization. A Zulu spy steals Architecture; we let the transgression slide. For some reason our CS allies of Cape Town and Cahokia are fighting each other; don't you all know you need to save your troops for when Shaka attacks, although getting XP is good.

T206. Adopt natural Policy of Nationalism. Our gpt shoots up to nice levels.

Interim. Ashur has declared war on Ram.

T208. Discover Rifling, start Steam Power for faster embark, our army is still pretty far away and we may need to send more soon.

Interim. Cahokia requests a road, that's not happening. Porcelin Tower finishes in Mecca.

T209. Swimming.

Interim. Carthage, Damascus WLtKD. Byblos, Samarkand no longer our friends.

Spoiler Arabian Core :
T210 Core.jpg

Spoiler Army Swimming :
T210 Army Swimming.jpg

  • Not really much action during these turns but I did get to pick two Social Policies. I chose Mobilization so we can buy units when the time comes and Nationalism so our massive army costs less.
  • I did build/buy a few more units; namely a Musket turned Rifle that is heading to Assyria and a Frigate. We have all our camels, 3 lancers, and a Rifle swimming to Assyria. I thought Assyria and Aztec were at war but The Aztec are at war with Indonesia. And now Assyria is at war with Siam. All good for us.
  • Our GS is moving to the unimproved desert hill to plant, but of course if there is a better place feel free.


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Three policies to Clausewitz.

Hah, indeed. No wonder it felt odd getting it so soon after getting Ideology but I didn't bother to develop that thought any further.

There is a nice landing zone near Assur where there will be plenty of room for our camels to maneuver.

Where's the spot? I can't see anything anywhere near. The best seems to be around Jerusalem but we'd need to ally both it & Hanoi before DoWing fortunately we'll have the money. KTN even has MP which is great. Another possibility is La Venta which is easier to get to and cheaper to secure and gives a fair choice between Ashur & Ganjaman.

In general I think it's safe to say that I play this game differently than the others do so the series is serving it's purpose to a degree :)

Also, how should we interpret this?

. I have had a crazy week, thus not being able to play much. It is better that I stay on the sidelines for this one.

At the time I assumed it meant not playing this (aka last) week and hence passing a stint but now I can see the option of stepping out for the rest of the game. I won't be playing before late evening anyway.
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Where's the spot? I can't see anything anywhere near.
The large uninhabited land SW of Assur is what I intended for our beachhead. We don't need any CS, there are none in the area where we would land. It would help if we had a couple of Frigates to send also, we have one now. And the Caravels can upgrade to Ironclad.
Spoiler Assyrian Beachhead :

I said to have fun killing Shaka. @Grendeldef said to have a boring turn swimming. What/who was the third opinion?
It was a pretty boring time swimming, and they're only halfway there. The third opinion was my own, to attack Assyria. Could be a terrible idea and we'll get swamped by Assyrian troops as soon as we land. I was going to do the safe/smart thing and attack Shaka but I figured what the heck, lets see what Camels can really do. Plus, look at Assur; it has Alhambra, Colossus, GL, GLH, HG, Himeji Castle, Louvre, Parthenon and Taj Mahal!
…but I figured what the heck, lets see what Camels can really do.
I predict that they will all die rather quickly. Ashurbanipal’s cities are already 50% stronger than the Zulu cities, and they will be twice as strong by the time our CA land.

I wait with bated breath!
The large uninhabited land SW of Assur is what I intended for our beachhead. We don't need any CS, there are none in the area where we would land.

Clealy we've some difference in metrics based on what we define a landing spot :) I agree that we don't need a CS but we do need a place to heal hence I suggested landing on Monte's territory before the map was revelead but more importantly we need a place on dry land where do not trigger The Question. I'll get back to the landing spot discussion later.

I predict that they will all die rather quickly. Ashurbanipal’s cities are already 50% stronger than the Zulu cities, and they will be twice as strong by the time our CA land.

I wait with bated breath!

Some defeatist we have here. You should have some trust in CAs as they are the Swiss Army Knife in Civ 5 only equalled by SBs and the difference being warranty; SB has unlimited while CA does not but ours are still in their valid days. I expected none of them to die while taking Nimrud, Nineveh & Jakarta. A sacrifiacial lamb while capping Assur I can live with :)

The stint itself was quick. I just swam & built some stuff but I'll do more detailed recap shortly. I also try to find some time tomorrow to play from T190-T220 starting the swimming part asap.

I don't know if Vadalaz or Nizef will be next but here's my ten turns and if Nizef is currently playing the same turns I can pass my stint or play the next ten.

Spoiler :


- switched teching to Archaelogy
- PtP La Venta
- sold 4 iron for 5g to Ashur capping the 50gpt limit


- stole Electricity, Carthage has 5 aluminium
- GW & GA spawn
- Assyria takes Order


- Siam denounced Monte
- planted GS in Mecca


- allied Kabul & Geneva for 250G each


- Ganjaman wants DoF - declined
- Archaelogy, after a careful counting we've gazillion sites
- back to Steam Power
- Elite Forces policy, far from greatest but we'll need happiness shortly so this is to enable MIlitarism next


- Stole Biology from Nimrud & moved the spy to Mogadishu
- cool, we don't have any oil but nor does Ashur yet
- cool, CS allies do Zurich 5, BA 2 & Quebec 10
- more GA turns by bulbing - left another GA in case someone has other purpose for him/her

- T216

- Cerro de Potosi - 0 WWs left
- Incense to Cloves with Ganja


- TR from Mecca to Almaty in hope of continued friendship


- Monte gets Brandenburg Gate
- Steam Power finished, starting Replaceable Parts
- renewed hammer TR to Damascus
- had to renew 2 lux & 9 gpt with Monte to be within the gpt limit


- Dido picks Order
- 1kG Mogadishu to ally it

-* The Plan (C from outer Finland) *

- ally La Venta & dry the camels
- DoW Ashur with Monte, take Nimrud, Nineveh & so on,
- start working on Surabaya & Jakarta as I assume we'll ran out of room near Assur nor was there a GG to bring here so we'll have to wait one
- Prophet was scouting and ready convert Nimrud as last rite
- Scout on a spot to pillage 2 Caravans
- Long Lasting Heretic is heading for Nimrud Oil without any real solutions
- the CAs are sadly not in any proper but fastest lands first
- Caravel by Hanoi is on route to pillage at least one TR
- CA nearby is searching for something to pillage
- Caravel by Medan is for moral support - haven't seen TRs or ships around here
- we didn't bring any minimum wage operators so there're no roads near La Venta
- few Gatlings, 2 Lancers, 2 Muskets & Rifle between Assur & Nimrud. At least 6 Indy wannabees as well
- sadly Monte grabbed Grand River from Ganjaman so the liberation part is delayed


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Yea, going and landing south is better. That illustrates why I'm not very good at the game, and even worse at war lol. We've played 3 of these succession games and even when I am in the game I have no idea how we've done so well.
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