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BC DoW on Deity

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Godel, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. Godel

    Godel Warlord

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    Like many others on the forum, I am often successful at Immortal. I recently started some Diety games (standard size continents, normal speed) but some civ (Monte, Shaka, Gilgamesh, Mongolians, Charle) usually declares war on me in the BCs and the game is virtually lost from there. Even when I am hanging on, they often bribe another civ declare.

    I don't usually have this problem so often or so early on Immortal. I usually build enough units to handle barbs and defend frontier cities. Focussing too much on military loses the land claiming race.

    Any advice?

    PS The best attempt so far (playing Suleiman): 8 cities by 200BC with Great Library. Had an army large enough to capture two barb cities bordering the tundra in the south. Everyone on my content is Hindu. Gilgamesh attacks Hammu and vassalises him in 100BC. These are my two immediate neighbours. Justianian in the far north declares on me. Gilgamesh is pleased with me an gives me HR. Two turns later Justinian, realising that he cannot tak my northen most city, bribes Gilgamesh to DoW me (at pleased) and all of a sudden it is me vs the rest of the continent. No point continuing from here (unless I hope to get one of those random peace events).
     
  2. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    You are over-estimating the AI, it is not that smart. It never realizes ANYTHING!!

    Most likely Gilga just DoW'ed on your ass on his own, as that's what he is supposed to do anyway.
     
  3. Godel

    Godel Warlord

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    Maybe, but he was <i>never</i> in WHEOOH mode. Is the AI that opportunistic?

    Anyway, the point of most post is not the story in the post script. You play at Diety, obsolete; do you have any advice for managing this issue on a continents map?
     
  4. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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  5. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Some maps are just unwinnable at deity, but more often it's a problem with diplomacy that you messed up. If you have shots around, it would be easier to tell where you went wrong, assuming it was human error. Anyhow, once Gilg got his first vassal, his dogpile odds went up 100%, and this is one reason that causes those early vassal masters to sometimes spin out of control and gobble up everything.
     
  6. Corneh

    Corneh Warlord

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    im not a Deity player but couldnt u have bribed gilg to attack justi instead before he attacked you, gilg is one of the few AI's who wil attack you on pleased, as you said he wasnt in wheoohrn.
     
  7. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    You'd have to have something to bribe him with, other than "here, have my land!"
     
  8. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    IIRC when the AI does a check to DOW it then goes into WHEOOH mode until it has the troops. If Giggles already had the troops then instant DOW. Most likely he was bribed into the war by your opponent. Bribed DOW's do not have WHEOOH
     
  9. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    As you can read in DanF's post aggressive ais often follow dagger_strategy in the early game. If they do there is only one (or maybe sometimes 0) wheoohrn turn, next turn actual dow happens. So a bribe is not necessary for a dow to happen immediately.
     
  10. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    I find that 'don't try to befriend everyone' becomes more important at Deity. In some cases, I'll declare war in the hopes that a psycho/opportunist will join in, which will often be the start of a long-lasting and gainful military alliance.

    Even a 90% peace chance at pleased means you have better than even odds to become a victim within 7 rounds, if you're an elegible victim. If you can't get the warmonger to friendly and they don't heoth, declaring on someone they're annoyed with will likely get them to join in in short order and be more conductive to your long-term safety.

    Of course this approach to diplomacy has its own problems... twisted frm the Evil Overlord list: I reserve the right to destroy my peaceful neighbours for their land or an alliance with the warmongers. However, if I do so I will not at a subsequent point shout 'Why am I surrounded by militaristic jerks?!'
     
  11. Duckweed

    Duckweed Deity

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    Play for defense and focus on tech early on. Even if you get declared, once you kill their initial SOD, you can sue for peace with a tech or some small cash. More importantly, feeding AIs with techs will bump them to be pleased on you early on and this will greatly lower the chance of their DOW, plus you can bribe them to DOW others instead.
     
  12. JammerUno

    JammerUno King

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    I'm barely competent at immortal myself, but DMOCs deity game had some excellent examples of diplomacy. The dogpile is a mean twist , so avoiding that first declaration is key. Getting declared by Justinian while sharing a religion though, that's rough.

    Beyond that, using your defensive advantage to hold them at bay until you can get a peace seems to be the only option.
     
  13. Dan Quale

    Dan Quale Prince

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    If you have copper you can win. My last diety win ... 42 axemen built enough said.
     
  14. Godel

    Godel Warlord

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    Thanks for everyone's replies, especially the link from Dirk.
     

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