BDS

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Berzerker, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Boycott, Divest, Sanction

    Israel

    I've heard the term but Bill Maher's show tonight dealt with the subject. Maher's not a fan, he said its basically political correctness run amok with progressives competing to show who is properly woke (I'm paraphrasing).

    I have mixed feelings, the freedom of association includes the freedom to disassociate. If a country misbehaves and the politicians running your country dont care how else can one affect change?

    Much of the world effectively used this tactic to bring down apartheid in South Africa, can it lead to a solution in Israel?
     
  2. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Bill Maher was mad as hell about Sarah Silverman losing a movie part because she wore black face a dozen years ago in a comedy skit. Maher said he will find out who made the movie and who fired her and boycott everything they make in the future.
     
  3. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Maher whom built hes carreer based on lets say potty mouth homour isnt a fan of Political correctness, I wouldnt overthink hes "comedy" show too much
    This problem has been examined in more detailed in such books like "The closing of the Liberal mind". I suspect its because there has been a drifting to both the left and right in an increasingly polorised electorate. With the election of Trump its just gotten worse/
     
  4. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    It's fine, and Israeli fear of it shows the power behind such a movement.

    I used to support the idea of Israel, now I wish we could just cede them western Florida and be done with all this. Seriously though, if you aren't going to two state it, you might as well cause the humanitarian catastrophe and remove them all to Syria and Jordan now. What they've done instead is basically built open air prisons and ghettos for their "bad" population. Ironic!

    No good answers.
     
  5. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Jared Kushner has the answer, It's coming soon!
     
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  6. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Not much Israeli stuff here to boycott and we get a lot of Israeli tourists.

    I'm fine with it though, people boycotted South Africa for similar policies.

    Israel has nukes and Merkava battle tanks their existence as a state is under no threat and they're as secure as they've ever been.

    I know a Jordanian here but he is actually Palestinian. He had a restaurant and watched him serve an Israeli once, he didn't look 100% happy but hh is over here for better life etc. Great kids.

    It's very grey though. Long term it'll take care of itself, global warming it will be Sahara conditions there.
     
  7. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    BDS gets problematic when it overlaps with Anti-Semitism. It's about the difficulty to determine whether someone does it out of a political disgust with how Israel (!) treats its Palestinian "neighbous" (and btw. it's citizens of Arab origin as well) or out of Anti-Semitism. Understandably, Israels (!) policies fuel a lot of the latter feelings in Arab around. That makes it easier for people to discount BDS as "racist" which just abandons all possible honest discussions on it. It's Godwins Law in real world politics. BDS is not for me, but it's a valid strategy, just need to pick out the bad apples.
     
  8. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Some aspects of BDS do come uncomfortably close to anti-Semitism, but I have absolutely no problems with a boycott of Israel in the same manner as the South African boycott.
     
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  9. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Boycotts are stupid and are not gonna work in this day & age, people are gonna go with what is convenient.
     
  10. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    What do you base this upon?
     
  11. JMA2286

    JMA2286 Chieftain

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    Sounds like you want to get rid of affirmative action, gentrification, demographic integration, and allow all communities to homogenize or diversify of their own choosing.

    If so, then BDS is just as stupid as sanctioning any other country for handling their internal affairs however they choose.
     
  12. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Man, free speech warriors go to bat for actual anti-semites. How many of them supported Richard Spencer's right to say rotten stuff even if they didn't agree, what about Milo? BDS isn't anti-Semitic, it's protesting actions taken by the Israeli government, there are actual Jews that support the movement. Are they anti-Semitic? FFS.

    I don't care enough to say anything other than that the US should stop supporting or excusing some of the more overtly belligerent actions but if someone wants to boycott Israel it's their first amendment right. It's gross that people on both sides of the aisle think it's right to take away that right (looking at you Tulsi, Ro and other progressives on the wrong side here...) It's messed up that people get more wound up over the second amendment than they do the first and fourth. Half the point of the second is to protect your rights granted by the others.
     
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  13. Modder_Mode

    Modder_Mode Prince

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    I think the USA should be boycotted, the way illegal immigrants are treated at the border and the murderous actions that happen in the Middle East, coupled with how native and black Americans are treated we need to make a stand on this! We must stop buying US made goods and services, who's with me?


    Oh wait....that might be YOUR jobs put in jeopardy....we couldn't have that could we....
     
  14. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    Are you alright?
     
  15. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Its a completely legitimate take you are mocking. The irony of your thinking it is not is pretty funny. If I was raised in the Egypt to Pakistan area you better bet I'd be trying to avoid US goods.
     
  16. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    The net results of boycotts are always annoyingly complex and overall they're inefficient. It's often easier to argue that the alternative is worse than that a boycott is particularly constructive.

    As far as Israel goes international opinion has had little sway over the government or electorate in either Israel or it's main ally USA. Perhaps things would have been worse without international criticism but that's somewhat speculative. Sanctions and criticism can also act as fuel to hardliners, this is the case both in Israel and Iran and others. "See? Everybody is against us, they hate us and their opinion is therefor irrelevant"

    BDS can work in a more simple and direct form in hurting Israels net revenues and thus limit it's ability to wage war and occupation. Here cause and effect is a little over simplified but there's a logic to it.

    Personally I try to avoid buying goods produced in Israel.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Precedent.

    Even blatant anti-consumer practices or in at least one case outright fraud (EA) hasn't been enough to get gamers to stop buying specific luxury goods.

    These are obvious practices that rather than challenging their morals or sense of ideology, directly damages the quality of the product they consume, yet they don't care. Even in the case of overt fraud where people who buy the game can't tell you how the fraudulent thing works *and they know it*, they still buy it because they want to play that type of game and it's more convenient.

    Among this type of consumer, what percentage of them do you anticipate will suddenly veer off this tendency and actually boycott something they would otherwise want over harms done not to them or the product in question, but to people they never see or care about?

    For Israel, it's even more silly since to my knowledge they don't export that much that a typical consumer can even identify in the states? I'm pretty ignorant to what Israel's been up to lately, but the only serious pressure I expect them to feel is if their allies start dropping military defense promises. THAT would force different actions, fast, and that's the lever you'd need to pressure Israel into any particular action/inaction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  18. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Not only do we subsidize Israel making their behavior our business we had a hand in it's creation. But even if none of that was true, people still have the freedom to vote with their dollars.
     
  19. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    I agree 100%.
    No irony.
     

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