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BE still fairly boring

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by HughFran, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    I was really excited to start playing Rising Tide when it was released and I was hoping for a complete overhaul of the vanilla game but after playing two games of RT I still can't shake the feeling of boredom when I play it. I just don't feel invested in the game and even on relatively high difficulties, there can be hundreds of turns go by where the AI Civs virtually ignore you and remain passive.

    In Civ 5, I prefer peaceful games and still have lots of fun because at some stage I will be fighting off an aggressive AI and racing to get as Scientific or Cultural as possible to compete with other Civs. But in BERT, peaceful games are increadibly dull at times because you just seem to have less things to do than in Civ 5.

    I really am trying to like this game but I just keep gravitating back to good old Civ 5!! How does everybody else feel now that we've had time to digest the new DLC - do you find BERT fun to play or have you went back to Civ 5?
     
  2. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    It shouldn't be a surprise that there's technically more to do in CiV with two expansions under it, than BE with just one.

    That said, even if you ignore the other factions in BE, or they ignore you, they still make Victory progress without you - providing an incentive to do something to level the playing field.

    I like Rising Tide. It's given me a lot to do and more ways to do it. Looking forward to the developers already talking about patching behaviour, it's a more positive sign than we had with vanilla. Might actually give the game more breathing room before they're put to work on another expansion.
     
  3. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    Up the difficulty and decrease map sizes. Seriously.

    The problem with Civ:BERT isn't there isn't enough to do (the early game has loads to do and while the victories are boring, there's a lot of cool interesting stuff in the tech web), it's that you rarely *have to*, because with the low number of players, the middling performance of the AI in focussing on an affinity (and hence actually getting powerful units required to make you look like a target) and the extra space on water for expansion, you rarely produce conflicts between evenly matched factions.
     
  4. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    I think if the balance problems were solved and the games would actually last longer, we could see some more interaction and the like. RT certainly helped to fix some of BE's "clinical" and "void" atmosphere, but the gameplay still suffers.

    So I can't really blame you if you want to go back to CIV5, I guess you gotta be a SciFi fan to enjoy BE at this stage.
     
  5. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    This is a good idea actually - I'll start a game tonight on a smaller map and higher difficulty to see if it improves the fun. I think the problem I was having is that on a standard map, there is plenty of space for you to expand without coming into conflict with other factions.
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    That's true for all Map Sizes though, you'll have to go beyond the Standard Amount of Sponsors for the Map Size you're playing if you want "action". To do that you'll have to edit:

    Steam\steamapps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization Beyond Earth\assets\Gameplay\XML\GameInfo

    (by increasing the <DefaultPlayers>X</DefaultPlayers>)

    Putting about 1.5 times as many players onto the map as is Standard is a setting I lika a lot. Enough room to expand, but not so much that there will never be any conflict.
     
  7. spfun

    spfun King

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    This small list of things that have made it pretty boring after 5 completed games.

    1) Games are over far to fast, On a standard map/Apollo/standard speed with +1-2 AI's its over in 170-200 turns... I would like to see standard games going to around 250+ turns. Gives the AI more of a chance to close the gap.

    2) RNG - Far to much of it for my liking. Artifact rewards and Artifact acquisition rate are the big ones. (due to OP bonuses) I've had a few games where i got barely an artifact.

    But also AI Diplomatic Agreements, Is Hutama in my game? Marvel Quest, Alien spawns etc... Really just to much.

    3) Poor balance right now. Needs a few balance patches...

    4) Insane amount of buildings that all feel weak/like clones of each other, tons of building quest choices which aren't choices.

    5) Engine Issues - Inept combat AI, buggy animations, jet animations take to long, an expansion based on Water Cities but with the same inept naval AI? ( This was a known Civ 5 issue, its just disappointing to expect the same awful AI for a expansion based on water cities )

    6) Unit upgrades aren't done well, i think Civ 5 was better system that BERT. ( e.g in BERT i can have ALL planes be good against either planes or land/boat units, not both. Instead of been able to have a mixture like past Civ games) Also Affinity jumps are too large, going from quite weak to strong in 1 turn.

    7) Tech Web issues, far easier for the player to manipulate than inept AI. Many techs aren't worth teching, EVER!
     
  8. HughFran

    HughFran Prince

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    I whole heartedly agree with this point - there are way too many buildings and a lot of them feel like they do the same thing. They should have less buildings, make them more powerful and increase the build times slightly.
     
  9. Kutuzov

    Kutuzov Prince

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    Well, funnily enough, I don't agree with it. I like that there are lots of buildings that I can customize to a limited extent. I don't find them underpowered either and neither do I feel compelled to build each one in every city. Just the ones where I want to improve my city's speciality output.

    And Civ V BNW had plenty of buildings that 'do the same thing' as well. Civ BERT doesn't have eras though which might make you feel like you're just building another building for more food, science, gold, culture, etc.

    And, IMO, build times are fine too. I would imagine people would be complaining even more about how little there is to do than just click 'End Turn' every turn while waiting for your latest building to be finished.

    There are definitely problems with the AI and with balancing but buildings are fine in my opinion. Some of the 'quests' could be tweaked to offer more interesting alternatives but they're more or less okay. And I didn't get to make these choices in Civ V.
     
  10. Ravenwild

    Ravenwild Chieftain

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    The samey buildings are there so that if you beeline for later techs you still have useful buildings to build. If you just do an ever expanding ring of research, they do get samey.
     
  11. sugerdady87

    sugerdady87 Warlord

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    I agree with everything you said here basically. I also agree with the OP despite people telling him/her to decrease the map size. In Civ5, when going for a cultural victory, not only would you have to manage having a decent military for defense, but you would also be racing the AI for specific techs to build specific wonders sometimes, for example. I've experience none of that same feelings with BERT.
     
  12. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    Only thing that keep me in Rising Tide is prospect of modding the new faction and don't care for the Civ lore in anyway I want, however I want and color Brasilia icon pink because that's what I want

    It isn't much easier to mod in CivBE with or without Rising Tide compared to Civ5 but horribly lack of representation of, say, Spain in CivBE and it's comparatively shorter loading time make this become a fun "game" for me despite it's not how it was meant to be played.
     
  13. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    I know people love civ5 but I honestly find the early game in BE far less boring than the early game in civ5. In BE, there is a lot of exploration in the early game. You can get artifacts and a lot of extra food, production or science, or even a free affinity level. Aliens swarm all over the place. There is plenty to build and you can crank out new cities pretty quickly if you want. The pace is faster. In my current civ5 game, it is turn 137, I am alone on a continent with 3 city states. Barbarians have tried to pillage my improvements. But other than that, it has been a slow game of putting stuff in build queues and picking the next thing for my worker to do. Science is super slow. Pretty boring.

    Edit: I would add that civ5 starts boring but gets exciting in the mid and late game whereas BE seems to be the opposite, super exciting in the early game and then slows down later.
     
  14. x2Madda

    x2Madda Prince

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    Goody huts. The early game has a lot more goody huts.
    I don't think this is a bad thing though, I like the fact we have to perform expeditions in order to obtain some of the better rewards. In Civ5 you wanted early scouts but more than 2 was often a waste whereas in CivBE scouts can only perform 1 expedition (bonuses not withstanding) and those expeditions take time so it means the early game feels a lot more involved. All Civ games have busy early game but things like moving a settler don't feel involving.

    As much as I enjoy it and I hope it stays in future games, it does slow down multiplayer a lot.

    I have mixed feelings about this because aliens are not universally spread out, which is fine. Barbarians in previous civ games were also more random than evenly spread, however aliens are a serious early game threat that can rapidly escalate before you even have the required technology to deal with them...If you are a newer player. Most of us on this forum know that even if we plan mass alien genocide that it is better to do so later rather than sooner so aliens end up like stations. They exist to hamper your expansion but nothing else. If you are unfortunate enough to have multiple alien nests on your land (or own rising tide in which case aliens seem to spawn from offscreen ALA civ4) then your early game is irrevocably hamstrung.

    The pace is faster and while I am in the camp that Civ:BE is a mediocre game, it would be nice if some of that faster pace was ported over to the next civ game. I am not sure why Civ:be feels faster however. I can list reasons why I think it is faster but I couldn't point out any one thing as the defining reason the game is faster.

    Without commenting on the method of how you are playing the game you referenced I would like to point out the fact that you are currently in a situation that is semi-unique. It happens but it is not the norm. The reason I say this is because it should affect the way you play that current game and the actions you decide to take. Maybe you will befriend those city states and reap the rewards on offer or maybe you will annex them into your empire or maybe you will ignore them completely.
    Civ5 offers both premeditated (must build population, must build science, etc) gameplay and reactionary gameplay (shaka declared war, I am losing in culture, etc) which Civ:BE is sorely lacking! The solution to any problem in Civ:BE is war. That isn't because it is the best solution but because it is literally the only solution to your problems.

    In civ4 you can capture enemy cities without ever building an army by using culture.
    In civ5 you can capture enemy cities without ever building an army by using tourism & ideology.
    In civ:BE you can attempt to use spies.

    At least if you can get intrigue high enough and if you can complete the mission since it has a high failure rate. But in Rising Tide it immediately causes a declaration of war if you do so. Unless you have an army nearby or were already attacking the city then its pointless to do so as you could just as easily take the city via regular warfare.

    You war the aliens on the planet, you war the planet itself, you war the other sponsors on the planet.

    I strongly feel that Civ:Be was the greatest RTS game, never made.
     
  15. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    I think one reason is that buildings seem to build faster in BE than in civ5. You can complete a clinic which gives a little science and health right from the start and it finishes in 6-7 turns on standard. And you can get the lab for extra science with just one more tech. In civ5, your first science building comes a couple techs later and it takes 10-12 turns to finish on standard speed. Those 10-12 turns can feel like an eternity in the early game. Expansion is also faster in BE. By turn 100, I can easily get 6-7 cities in BE whereas I usually only have 4-5 in civ5. Happiness is more rigid in civ5. Early on, you are limited by the luxuries in your areas. Your first happiness building comes later. And just -10 happiness in civ5 starts rebels popping up. So, you really got to take it slow with expansion until you can work luxuries. Whereas BE has tons of ways to get health so you can afford to expand faster. If I get -10 health, no worries, there are plenty of early buildings that offer health, plus traits I can take which will easily boost me back to roughly 0 health in no time.

    I disagree. The new diplomacy systems offers players traits and agreements that seem tailored specifically to solving problems. Don't have enough energy? There is an agreement/trait that can help. Want more trade routes? There is an agreement/trait for that. Is your military weak? There is an agreement or trait that can help with that. Need health? There is an agreement/trait for that. Need to help your outposts convert to cities faster? There is an agreement/trait for that. etc...
     
  16. kipwheeler

    kipwheeler Warlord

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    I agree with Kutuzov. I like the sheer variety--and the fact that I do not have to build every single one. That creates a lot of variation from game to game when I play.
     
  17. NASAROG

    NASAROG Prince

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    The end game is either a click-fest for one of the win conditions, or a campaign of conquest/genocide.
     
  18. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Warlord

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    I've found the only way the end game is fun is if I set myself to win only through domination, and give the AI a 20 turn limit to catch up tech wise.
     
  19. gunnergoz

    gunnergoz Cat Herder

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    Can't agree I find BERT boring at all. It has deficiencies that need improving, but boring it's not. Ad a couple of mods and it becomes downright interesting.
     
  20. poom3619

    poom3619 Ping Pang Poom!

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    Maybe you can change some value in Building XML. I spent few minutes to change Old Earth Relic to yield something like 200 Culture, 200 Research, 200 Influence 200 Production (which also applied to AI) and the game is much more fun when you can win Emancipation victory at turn 80 :D and see how Firaxis think victory video should be... :(


    At least it would fun for a few game.
     

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