Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by snarzberry, Jan 12, 2011.
you need to be by water to build it, this not being documented is a known bug.
I find it necessary to build an archer for killing barbarians - otherwise it's hard to keep your luxuries from constantly being pillaged. A couple scouts are a big help for meeting the other MPs and CSs sooner.
This guide has been really helpful insightful. I was on cusp of getting my first Deity victory playing as Egypt last night with this, but came up somewhat short. Japan declared war on me quite early and pillaged many of my improvements. I was able to fight him off with a single Archer in my capital as my entire city was surrounded by hills/ocean, apparently causing the AI to just run around my territory before eventually making peace. Unfortunately, this really messed my plan up because he was one of my RA partners. I ended up with 5/5 SPs, but Arabia won Science Victory immediately after. Still, Japan's attack caused me problems, and in my last game today, Siam invaded me and set me back as well. Do you have any advice for dealing with these kind of leaders, or is it really just luck of the draw?
Unfortunately, I wound up quite far behind the listed strategy in my last several attempts because, somehow, the AI civilizations took FOREVER to have enough cash for an RA. I found a few times in the early game I actually had to gift a bit of gold to two civs to get an RA because they were hovering around 150 gold + 0 gpt. Is this normal or did I just get neighbors who can't manage money?
I've won with this strategy on Immortal, haven't tried Diety yet. I never was declared on - the only thing I would do was not give Open Borders to my immediate neighbors, or any MP that was acting belligerent.
If you're playing Continents, you might try Pangaea - you can make contact with more MPs sooner, and odds are some will have enough money to do RAs.
I've not yet failed to get Sydney Opera House on Emperor, lining Globalisation up with RAs. But obviously this is more difficult on higher levels. If you're lucky you can get an extra GE through the Patronage tree which will help with this. As said, you need to be by water.
Sydney Opera House can be built ONLY on a coastal city. This is not on the in-game description. I just learned it yesterday...
Another 'thanks' to snarzberry for this strategy.
I swear it took at least two dozen starts / re-rolls but got my first Civ5 Deity win using this strategy. It was a very late victory in the 1870's, and thought I was doomed on several occasions:
Three of my Research Agreements were badly timed, and I slung undesirable tech's (although one was triggered by one of those 'two turns to go' and then you get the blocker technology given to you in-between turns).
I was very late getting to quite a number of World Wonders, and relieved that I was still able to get Cristo Redentor way after turn 200.
Askia was the early-game runaway, and demolished two tribes in little time. As a neighbor I was waiting to be next, when he turned around and offered a Declaration of Friendship. He seemed at constant war, and I was thankful that until the last 50 turns he was unwavering in this friendship.
Catherine was the only tribe to seriously attempt a spaceship win, but for a very meager 130 I bribed Askia to attack Russia, and it seemed to slow her spaceship part construction significantly. Her Hostile stance eventually floated back to Neutral after I stopped competing with her for a couple of the cultural city states as the last of the Social Policies had been secured.
Playing as Ramkhamhaeng, on this map it unfortunately took quite a while to get anywhere with city states (I was short on cash with only two resources, and the money was being used on research agreements anyway), but I went after the Patronage social policy tree after getting the core policies out of the Freedom branch first. Having eventually built up my per turn rate, I ended up with four city state allies (all cultural), and at one point near the end was getting over 430 per turn. Also took; Tradition, Piety, and Order, and got the initial Commerce policy as a bonus from passive culture production while building the Utopia Project.
A whopping 788 points!
I'm attaching the start and the end saved games - although the end one's hardly a great 'text book' example, but a win's a win I guess.
I just won an OCC with Siam on Deity Earth map: 265 turns 1775 AD.
I allied a Maritime CS with my first luxury sale, taking out a loan to get the rest of the money. That fast growth was important very early in the game.
After building Stonehenge, I went for NC. I also got Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Angkor Wat, Chichen Itza, Louvre, Redentor, Eiffel Tower
When the Wat became available I bought it. I didn't build a temple until after move 100! Getting Observatory helped also.
I only signed a few RAs, I relied on Patronage and growth as I allied every maritime as soon as I came across them.
The extra culture from CSs really adds up with Siam, especially in the industrial era. I got 3 GE, one I used for Sistine Chapel, Eiffel Tower (GE came untimely) and the other for Broadcast Tower which came during the Cristo Redentor build - I got a GS before my 2nd GE.
4 great people came from CS... 2 were GG which were golden ages.
I had a lucky start, hills with 4 silver (lots of hammers) + whales plus later furs and marble as my borders expanded 5 hexes in each direction. It was Alaska/ Canada location with Persia as southern neighbor, he behaved except for conquering my original maritime which was between us.
I saved Piety for last, I used Rationalism earlier to get 2 free GS. Tradition, Patronage, Freedom, Rationalism, Piety, but skipping around in the trees.
Thank you for a great guide! Much appreciated. I've some questions. (I came searching for strategies because when I tried to play Prince level, I kept getting my hat handed to me, so I think there's a lot I don't know yet about the game.)
On my second attempt (Washington decided around turn 200 to destroy me on my first attempt, on the second, same thing, but just as suddenly we were friends again, so I kept going).
I am 16 policies away from the project. I'm on turn 239 and 21 turns from a RA to pop the Cristo Redentor. I'm behind and with one of my competitors starting to build space ship parts, I think I'm won't make it in time..
You say go up to 3 population, then starve to complete SH. How important is population after that? Seems like the bigger population the better, or I can't put citizens on the monuments the GAs build. But what are my priorities?
Do you work tiles before putting the GA monument or does that improvement remove others?
Do you build a university right away?
Once you've built or bought a university, do you put a specialist in?
Do you put a specialist in the garden?
Somehow, I ended up with 4 great artists (two from the wonder and two that just popped), this made my GE generation slower and I think even if I can get Telegraph in time, I won't have a GE to use on it. I think this is because I put a specialist in the Garden.
Are there wonders you avoid building?
Do you build culture buildings the moment they are available?
If there is only one culture city state, is that going to be enough?
How early do you need to start befriending the city state? I feel like I'm behind on policies, seems like needing 16 more at turn 239 is not good enough.
Will gifts of gold positively affect diplomatic relations? I tried this when Washington suddenly became hostile, it didn't seem to work, though he was just as suddenly friendly a few turns later (I think right after our RA completed).
Oh, one more question! I was getting RAs as soon as I could, but then was having trouble blocking unwanted techs. Do you wait a bit after setting up civil service so you can time them out? I got behind on the techs, but even so, I think I rushed the RAs.
first off, i'd retry at a lower difficulty level first before the jump to deity. try immortal.
you need high population. if you're doing occ, you're going to want a strong starting spot, don't hesitate to restart till you get a good one: something with plenty of riverside area and preferably marble. my absolute favorite start would be plains river area with marble, a couple wheat tiles, and wine.
artist monuments remove other improvements. my favorite thing to put them on is sheep.
the importance of a university is dependant on how many RAs you're signing, but i do try to build if i'm not working on a critical wonder.
only use engineer specialists (workshop/windmill/factory) until you've got cristo, then switch to artists.
the only wonders i recommend are
pyramids (ge point)
angkor wat (ge point / a lot more tiles for city to work)
chichen itza (ge point / longer golden ages)
hijemi (culture + ge points)
sistine chapel (culture)
you can avoid the culture buildings until you're going to be opening up hermitage, you want to have all the prerequisites for museum done when that opens so you can either rush buy museum or build museum and hermitage.
cultural city states are a nice bonus, but they're not required. as to when you should befriend them, whenever you have extra gold... pretty much all your gold should be going into RAs, after i have all going possible i put the next extra gold into a couple maritime, after that cultural.
no, giving an AI gold doesn't improve relations.
i gave a complete build order and policy order for an exceptionally fast cultural game here if you're interested: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10216060&postcount=11
I've read the guide and I'm very impressed, even though it feels really gamey (I guess you have to at that difficulty level). I have two questions about the strategy:
- in the final part of the game (after building CR), you focus on CS, but how do you prevent the other civ from doing the same. They'll probably have more gold and if Alexander is in the game, he'll hog most of them.
- diplomacy: after quite a few playthrough (on lower difficulty, mostly Prince), I was never able to go without a war. I'm nice with everyone, trade and even give freebries/unfair deal, but I always have someone DoW on me for seemingly no reason, neighbors or not...
Well, I've tried this since the patch...and it seems like it's going to be extremely difficult now because Stonehenge takes MUCH longer to get(for you, the AI seems to have no problem getting it quickly) because of that extra 100 hammers. The AI seems to still get it around turn 40-42 like before, but that's obscenely hard with a 220 hammer stonehenge.
Yeah honestly I don't see this opening as possible anymore. Or, at least, the range of acceptable starts has narrowed dramatically. For example, a hill start is 100% mandatory because of the reduction of base city tile hammers. The nerf to Aristocracy doesn't help either.
I'm going to try it a few more times but the best SH build time I could find is well past turn 40 now. The AI still reliably builds it in the 30s.
Ok so actually I just got Stonehenge on turn 41 as Egyptians. (+20% wonder production trait)
Might could have pulled it off as another civ, if I had been lucky enough to steal a worker for faster chopping, but that's doubtful so early. I went Monument->Worker and had time to chop two forests, so the second one was partially overflow I think.
I also had to move on Turn 0 to get my settler on a hill. Lost a turn there.
The only hut of consequence I found was one that gave +1 population to my capital. Pretty huge swing, as my start was almost all plains and would have been slow to grow. Has wheat, marble, wine, and two cows, so I'm looking forward to continuing it tomorrow.
Edit: uhhh so I restarted the same map and got it down to 39 turns.
So did the computer.
Sorry for three posts in a row, but I can't believe I didn't think of this last night.
The cultural policy changes have drastically altered this game.
You can 100% guarantee having Stonehenge first if you're France.
Just go Liberty->free Worker policy->Meritocracy and pick GE for your Great Person. It's such an obvious change, and you can get SH before turn 30 if you have any luck in the goody huts at all.
This also means you can open Monument-Scout-Granary or Monument-Scout-Scout or whatever you'd like, since you don't need to build the worker, either.
Do u play with France? I got 1 hut, citizenship at turn 15 => 90/4 + 15 => meritocrazy at turn 38 (Egypt & king lvl) Build SH, GL and GE for Oracle
That Liberty opening would also mean an alteration in the social policy trees you'd go for. I've not given it too much thought since the patch, but I assume you'd still go for Tradition, Piety, Patronage and Freedom, as well as Liberty, dropping out either Commerce or Autocracy.
Yeah I'm not sure why you'd ever go Autocracy in this strategy. Freedom is 100% vital to it. Unlocking Autocracy at all is a misstep since nothing in the tree is good for you. Commerce is better but not as good as, say, 2 free techs. Patronage is just a waste of time - I mostly finished my games without any CS help. Besides, on my Immortal playthrough, the Mongols killed every single cultural CS. Competing for city-states also pisses off other civs. Better just not to do it and spend your gold on buildings and RAs instead.
I went Tradition, Liberty, Rationalism, Piety, and Freedom. Rationalism and Piety do block each other, but you don't really need Rationalism active at all. Just get the timing right so that you land the 2 free techs at the same time as some RAs go off, and you can easily nab 6+ techs in a single turn. Then just go back to Piety for the majority of the game. I also left Piety until later, mostly because I slingshot through the Medieval so fast and into Renaissance. Once you're in Renaissance, you have to get the +100% culture for having a wonder policy ASAP.
I pulled it off on Diety with the Incans, turn 308 or so. Missed a couple good wonders, too, but it worked out. I was afraid Montezuma was actually going to come after me for the Domination victory, but he couldn't quite finish off Saladin's capital. Montezuma also managed to kill off a bunch of cultural CS.
In general, I don't think Patronage is a good choice for this strategy. There's always going to be one civ killing off CS, or at least a civ jealous of your influence with the CS. Besides, if this were a CS strategy, just get a diplomatic victory. On diety, the AI will almost certainly build the UN before you manage to finish your Utopia Project.
Edit: I see now that the OP talked about taking Order and not Liberty. Well, that was with the old policy trees. Liberty is pretty much 100% vital to this build now, especially Meritocracy.
Patronage can give a significant boost to your research, as well as giving you a GE if you're lucky. It's a strong policy tree, and taking advantage of city states makes complete sense, as they provide a defensive bonus, vital food or cultural boosts (the boost you get from a cultural city state is as good as another cultural building) and prevent your opponents from winning a diplomatic victory. Other than the two free techs, Rationalism doesn't offer all that many benefits. Autocracy gives you a production boost, on the other hand, which is important when building the Utopia Project. It also allows you to fully take advantage of Patronage, and gives you what can be a vital defensive boost.
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