Beating Emperor!

Revent

Will SIP
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Emperor is sooo hard!! I normally do so well on Monarch in the beginnings at least and my game then starts to drop, but I'm playing this emperor game with Gandhi and T70 and I'm at the bottom in points! How do you guys win with these difficulties?!?!? It's looking so impossible right now! I'm playing Huge Pangea, Normal with Huts and Events.
I'm so behind despite popping Masonry!

Sorry this is more of a rant than asking for help, but any general tips would be welcome! :) I'd really appreciate it because I feel like throwing my computer out the window!
 
I'd really appreciate it because I feel like throwing my computer out the window!


I also feel that quite often struggling with Emperor :lol: but afaik compared to Immortal and Deity, Emperor is quite easy.
 
The jump from monarch to emperor is pretty tough, being bottom in points for a hunk of time is something to get used to, its a good job that early score ain't that important.

general tip: don't play huge maps on normal speed.
 
Big points about Emperor compared to Monarch...

Barbs start to be a real threat. You can't just ignore them and count on your city garrisons or maybe a panic-whip; you need to have a plan. Either you want a way of fogbusting with warriors (if you can do it with 5 or fewer warriors, this is usually best), or you'll need to get a strategic resource and either axes or chariots - one every city or two.

Maintenance is noticeably higher. Be aware of ways into early gold and beakers - it'll help a lot to get early Writing and an early Library; if you get a chance to, settle an offshore city for overseas trade routes. Financial coast and/or GLH are also reasonable options. Consider some early cottages (especially around your capital). Use tile overlap to let them grow non-stop without forcing any one city to always work them. If you're rushing, don't automatically keep all the cities you take - if there's a city in a bad spot, just raze it. Settling compactly except for blocking cities or cities that take gold/gems/silver will help a lot.

While on the topic of rushes... they're harder on Emperor. The somewhat later "rushes" (horse archers or catapults) start looking a lot stronger compared to the early axe/chariot, although on Emperor I'd still say the early rushes are common options.

The AI starts to compete for stuff - you have to make a legitimate effort to get wonders, first-to-tech bonuses, and such. On the flip side, this means you can be more confident relying on stuff like failgold, trade-bait techs, and support from vassals (on Monarch-, you just can't count on the AI to do it's part on any of those efforts).

Early happiness starts to be a serious concern. You should have a plan in mind for getting at least 2-3 extra happiness in your cities fairly early in the game. If you have gold and gems, great; more happiness is nice, but you can work with what you have if needed. Or you may end up getting a religion and temples, building Pyramids, getting Monarchy early... easiest way to suddenly discover that you've been falling behind for the past hundred turns is to forget to find early ways of raising happy cap.

Score isn't important, ignore it. Here are the fundamentals in my judgment - do you have enough good land? On IMM/Deity you often have to just man up and live with the fact that some AI empires will be bigger than you for a long time, but on Emperor early aggressive expansion through REXing or war can usually get you at least as much good land as the AIs are taking. Are you keeping up in tech at least enough to trade? As long as you're in shouting distance of the AI, you can stay competitive despite a weak research rate for quite a long time (during which you can develop your land, take new land, get key wonders, manipulate AIs into costly and research-slowing wars, and otherwise adjust things to let you move to the lead in research). Is your diplomatic situation tolerable? If you've managed to become worst enemy of several empires, all of them warmongers that are larger than you and ahead in tech... well, you messed up somewhere and will probably lose. If there's no way anybody could plan on attacking you, or you are strong enough to easily destroy anyone who might attack you, the game is in pretty good shape even if you are behind in score, land, and research rate.
If the answer to all those three questions was yes, I wouldn't be concerned even if every other AI somehow had twice my score. If the answer was "no, but there's something I will be doing soon to make that answer a yes," I wouldn't be concerned. It's only when you're so hopelessly behind in land and tech that you cannot trade and cannot fight a war, or when you're expecting a doom-backstab any second, that the game starts looking grim.
 
Sorry this is more of a rant than asking for help, but any general tips would be welcome! :) I'd really appreciate it because I feel like throwing my computer out the window!

All Coandas advice is spot on,on emporer you just have to focus more.If your playing Gandi on pangaea-well anythings possible-just dont get side tracked with your objective,think im goin for conquest/space/culture and stick to it,theres room for pragmatism on monarch and below,but not on emporer,you have to chase your wonders and techs to get the advantage.

As coanda said about early expansion,citys sharing tiles is VERY important on emporer,and switching between the two although a pain will make alot of diffrence.Maintenaince cost are high so you need to to think short rather than long term for your initial 3/4 citys.
 
You should start playing as if you were playing on Deity for your build order. Worker then Warriors until size 3, then you need to start build a settler almost IMMEDIATELY the only exception is if the warrior is 1 turn off finishing. You can not keep up with the AIs expansion if you do not do this. If you build your first settler at size 4 the AI will have 3-4 cities by the time you get your second, and by the time you have your 3rd they will have 6-8. Thus causing you to have no where near enough land. Also start whipping settlers at 6 pop for speed expansion, you can actually easily start out expanding the AI if you chop and whip settlers.


One more pro tip NEVER EVER EVER play Huge Normal. Huge is meant to be played on Maranoob. You are hurting yourself by doing so, as you are giving the AI a lot more land.
 
Yeah, I learnt about Barbs the hard way :p What's the best way to stop them from spawning? ie tactical placement of warriors, etc.. I've noticed they're much more aggressive as well on this difficulty.

What do you mean by ways into early gold and beakers? I'm definitely learning to keep my cities a bit more compact :) I've noticed gem and gold cities tend to pay for themselves really so I always build a city there if I can. What are trade-bait techs? Is it (almost) useless stuff like Music and what not? Would you suggest for example using a scientist for bulbing compass or keeping the scientist for later or settling?

But yeah, thanks for all the advice :) I'm just having some trouble with knowing what techs to go after, etc...

I'm trying to play my way through diplomacy here right now and having really fun bribing everyone against each other. It really works so well. I've learnt to give in to almost all demands and get pleased with the AI even though religion is different. But how do I keep up in tech trades? ie in this game I'm playing, half of the AI I've met are currently ahead of me and a quarter on par and the other quarter are behind.

Also, if you get an AI to friendly, will they ALWAYS trade with you? Even if its a monopoly tech or they would normally get WFYABTA?
 
You should start playing as if you were playing on Deity for your build order. Worker then Warriors until size 3, then you need to start build a settler almost IMMEDIATELY the only exception is if the warrior is 1 turn off finishing. You can not keep up with the AIs expansion if you do not do this. If you build your first settler at size 4 the AI will have 3-4 cities by the time you get your second, and by the time you have your 3rd they will have 6-8. Thus causing you to have no where near enough land. Also start whipping settlers at 6 pop for speed expansion, you can actually easily start out expanding the AI if you chop and whip settlers.


One more pro tip NEVER EVER EVER play Huge Normal. Huge is meant to be played on Maranoob. You are hurting yourself by doing so, as you are giving the AI a lot more land.

I almost always build my second city at size 3 regardless and I try to aim such that, by the time I have writing finished, my second city has grown enough and can product settlers while I build a library in the cap. Yeah, I do understand that huge is for marathon, but it's also a lot more fun with more AI I think because the game gets really complex and you have to watch everything carefully. So what would be the balance with having a few more AI and the normal map? :)
 
Also, if you get an AI to friendly, will they ALWAYS trade with you? Even if its a monopoly tech or they would normally get WFYABTA?

Ive had ai,s that wont trade at friendly-annoying-i cant remember the excuse.
 
Conda gives some pretty good advice, the early rushes certainly require more thinking on emperor than on monarch however they are still possible. I would recommend against rushing a protective civ or a civ with a archer UU, Mail or Sitting Bull for example.

Emperor becomes a problem in the late game, when ai's will start going for culture victories and space.
Spoiler :
I recently lost NC Cathrine to the dutch and myan's who were both going culture while Augustus went for space. (It was my own fault, i wasn't fast enough taking out those two, and i turned off vassle states in rage as in previous attempts pacal peace vassled every time to the dutch.)

Also civ's who get tons of land and peace vassles become much more of a problem on emperor than monarch. They can run away with the game, so be weary of them.
 
Aye, Coanda's advice is pretty spot on. To elaborate on the subject of spawnbusting barbs, in case you don't know:

Some of the code divers in the forum found out that the barbs cannot spawn within 2 tiles of any unit. So if you place a warrior out in the open, barbs cannot spawn in a 5x5 square around it. In the early game, especially on standard sized maps, you can often prevent the barbs from spawning at all just by placing warriors in the land you want to expand into. The best way to fight barbs turns out to be just to not fight them at all.

If you're playing on huge maps, though, barbs are ridiculous. Definitely jump down to Large or Standard sizes, they're much more balanced.

On emperor and above you still want to prioritize worker techs in the beginning, followed by pottery and writing. Then it's often a good idea to research aesthetics to trade for alphabet, or just self tech alphabet. Then Monarchy, Currency, CoL, Civil Service, etc.

And as to the AIs trading, it depends on the leader. The game counts the number of techs you trade, and each leader has a WFYABTA cap for each disposition they'll trade techs at. Go above the cap for their current disposition, and they won't trade. Get them to friendly and their cap will be higher, but you'll reach it eventually in the late game. Not sure about monopoly techs.
 
What are trade-bait techs? Is it (almost) useless stuff like Music and what not? Would you suggest for example using a scientist for bulbing compass or keeping the scientist for later or settling?
The classic trade bait tech in my experience is Aesthetics. It doesn't do much by itself-- opens a wonder that I don't usually want, if I recall-- but can be traded for Alphabet (a few turns of research in the latter may be required). Once you have Alphabet, Aesthetics can then be traded for a bunch of cheaper but still valuable techs like Iron Working, Sailing, Hunting, and Monotheism. With enough AIs contacted, Aesthetics might be worth 5 or 6 technologies-- bear in mind that you'll also have Alphabet to trade.

A trade bait tech in a nutshell: a tech the AI reliably won't research but will trade for. Philosophy and Printing Press have also been useful to me for trading like that, but Aesthetics is the most dramatic example.

This doesn't work below Emperor. On easier difficulties, AIs research so slowly that one may as well go ahead and get Alphabet and get the cheaper, bypassed techs via trade that way. I don't know if it works on Deity, but suspect it does.

As for the scientist question, I like to bulb Philosophy, Paper, Education, and Printing Press (not all three, those are just the ones I tend to use scientists on, relying on memory). Compass is a bit small. Alphabet can be bulbed, but I rarely have a scientist that early-- I'd again say it's a bit small. I like to put an Academy in my capital with my first scientist. I only play with good capital sites, I like to put the Great Library and Oxford in my cap, and I use Bureaucracy. I don't know if this is clever; it's just something I do.
 
The We Have Our Reasons is I think because they are trying to build a wonder :p

@i_imperator, that just means we gotta aim to beat more of them earlier on :p So that must also mean we have to be more focused on our own victory condition pretty early on, rather than right at the end I guess.

@Jex, thanks for the explanation :) That really makes sense and hopefully barbs will never trouble me again too long.

@Dave, thanks! That really makes sense and I actually do the Aesthetics bait on Monarch in around half of the games :p
 
In my experience, on Emperor I could usually self-tech Aesthetics AND Alphabet before the AIs got to Alphabet, so waiting around to trade Aesthetics was a bad idea. The Aesthetics trade tip works best when the AI are ahead of you in tech and you need a chip to bring you back to parity. If you're using the Aesthetics trade on Monarch, you could probably have teched straight to Alphabet and been better off (unless you want the Aesthetics wonders).
 
How do you guys deal with military early on? ie, if I'm building a settler as soon as I get to size 3, how am I to cope with for example not enough warriors for escort/not enough military for anything?
 
For me at least, build order is usually worker -> build some warriors while growing -> settler. Send every warrior in a different direction to scout / spawnbust, and 1 warrior where you want to place your city. You should always build the escorting military unit before the settler, unless you can get away with some Great Wall shenanigans.

Often you can get away with fighting barbs with just warriors through spawn busting. At the very least, it makes you fight less. If there is a lot of land to expand into and you haven't met an AI over there, though, it means you should probably grab archery. Either way, most of your military will be outside your empire fog/spawn busting, where they can act as a scouting network for barbarians approaching your cities. Before monarchy, you really only need to keep 1 unit per city to garrison for happiness. If a barb does threaten to take a city, you can always whip an extra defender.

Edit: And of course, I don't mean you actually escort the settler with a warrior. The warrior just provides sight so you know you're not moving the settler next a bear, or something. As to attacking the AI, you usually won't in the early game short of chariot, axe, or horse archer rushes. Most of your military is just caught up protecting your expansion. A good time to make a real build up to attack is a unique unit, or rifling. Drafted rifles will win you many, many games.
 
Guys the AI is very predictable. This is what makes emperor very winnable.

Just stick to the core basics.

1. Worker first. Settler around size 3.
2. Work the food resources early on.
3. Your first tech will normally be to grab resources like corn or cows.
4. Don't under estimate the importance of granaries for growth.
5. Always focus on your capital. Key builds will be granary/library. Overall you want a size 10-14+ capital by 1ad and hopefully for it to be churning out 60+ beakers a turn. Overall one strong city is much better than 3-4 average cities.
6. Always have a great people farm somewhere in your empire.
7. Know when a axe/chariot or HA rush is needed and when to expand peacefully to 6-7 cities.
8. Always have more workers than cities. 1.5 workers to a city.

Overall the key thing is micromanagement. Monitoring cities to make sure you work the best tiles, build the right buildings.

So lets get this chat out the way and set up a game so we can learn just how many of you read this post or any of the above. ;)
 
I'll be on it riiiight now. If it goes to hell and back.... after the bruises and burns have healed, there will be another "I can't manage Emperor, please help me" thread. May be one no matter to be honest, but I'll try it out first to see how painful it is.
 
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