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Beating my science-obsessed buddy

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by salvatorethesecond, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    My buddy and I love playing multiplayer. We are both Immortal players and each game is incredibly close. However, my friend is a little bit of a one-trick pony---he always goes for science victories. He prioritizes campuses early and often and rushes all the necessary buildings up to Research Labs.

    As a result, his science-focused play forces me to spend more early production on campuses. This is not usually how I like to play. I like to let population support my science until around T 60-70 (on Online speed) and then I start plopping down Campuses so I can time it with the Enlightenment civic. But I cannot wait this long when I play against him.

    Is it ever possible for me to go for a culture victory against a science-focused MP player? Or should I give up on that idea and merely focus on science/domination?
     
  2. chazzycat

    chazzycat Chieftain

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    I don't play MP, but my first instinct would be to play as france, go culture, and heavy on spies. steal his techs & sabotage the crap out of his spaceport
     
  3. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    That's definitely a strategy to negate his advantages! I like it. But from there would you suggest the best way to go is culture? In all my MP games, I've never won a culture victory because science is inevitably so far ahead of tourism output. Does that make sense?
     
  4. chazzycat

    chazzycat Chieftain

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    If he is ignoring culture, and you're focused on it, in theory you should be able to win rather quickly if it's a heads-up game. Or are other AI involved? If so, would probably be less viable, since the AI is pretty good at culture on immortal level and you need to beat all of them to win.

    With France it's mostly about securing as many riverside cities as you can, spamming chateaus & beelining flight/radio/computers. With flight, culture from improvements (chateaus) is converted to tourism. Then with radio you add the seaside resort spam and computers doubles everything. Eiffel Tower & Christo are great wonders if possible.
     
  5. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    We usually play with a couple of AI, but one of us always ends up winning the game. As for beelining flight/radio/computers---I'm assuming you do that through Campuses with just Library and University? Beelining for Research Labs would be too much of a tangent at that point in time?
     
  6. chazzycat

    chazzycat Chieftain

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    Yep, I would not go for research labs.

    If you start the game and the AI are culture specialists like Kongo & Brazil, you would probably want to abandon the culture plan though. Even if they aren't capable of actually winning, they can still stack up a lot of "defensive" tourism or whatever it's called. That slows your victory way down.
     
  7. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    That makes a lot of sense---I feel like America, France, and Greece would be my best bet to counter his science focus.
     
  8. Art Morte

    Art Morte Chieftain

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    If you don't war a lot, Russia's trade routes to a more advanced civ give you up to +3 science. A few of those can boost science nicely - but a human player might just declare war and pillage them, though.
     
  9. sugerdady87

    sugerdady87 Chieftain

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    No matter what, if he's focusing on science, he can always win. Unless he only wants to win by science victory, he can rush bombers/airstrip/military engineers and win in a few turns.
     
  10. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    Agreed, and that honestly is a frustration I have with civ. Science trumps all other factors in the game---but, I suppose that is how civilization works in general. Those nations which were more "enlightened" did much better.
     
  11. PYITE

    PYITE Chieftain

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    Multiplayer cultural victories are difficult but if anyone knows how to do it, it’s @AmtrakQuebec

    My non cultural strategy would be to go extra military. When your opponent is researching to education and building universities you should be researching/producing towards a knight or cavalry rush. You don’t have to be strong enough to capture cities, just enough to pillage the campus districts.
     
  12. AmtrakQuebec

    AmtrakQuebec Chieftain

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    If there are other Civs, you can win a Culture victory fairly easily by playing as Khmer and using the Reliquaries strategy, in a straight duel it is difficult.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  13. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    That's a strategy I've been considering (I did it on Deity a couple of weeks ago). We never like to play straight duel, so yeah, we usually have three or four AI on a small map type. I am a huge fan of Khmer---they offer you the ability to go for Religious, Cultural, or Scientific victories. In that Deity game, I got a city population up to 29...the highest I've ever done so before, all because of the Aqueduct bonuses.
     
  14. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    For online speed, at T60~70 an usual player shall already be in industrial or modern era, instead of just beginning to place campuses.
     
  15. AmtrakQuebec

    AmtrakQuebec Chieftain

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    Define "an usual" (sic) player please.
     
    norrel likes this.
  16. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    it's better to compare your benchmarks to what we usually observe through games played. But all games i have checked/played so far are exclusively human games with no AIs. Of course, in some public games you can retreive yourself with AIs around but they are usually set from prince to emperor.

    So the immortal AI has some advantages to get from, probably a lot more than humans can give to you. But the main stratey remains the same...get most cities as possible. More cities, more culture, more science, more everything. Immortal can surely build very early districts that you can get from conquest for example. That can gives you a better edge than building your own cities, especially after making the first ones.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Beat up a couple of civs around you early and leave them on one city. This will stop his great scientists being able to be rushed so easily. You also need to play with someone like Gorgo and rush Acropolis but also include a few campi. You need to have at least 10 cities. If you can stop them getting the coliseum then even better, it will limit their culture output.
    It's njust t an easy game to win as you do have to push computers. The big issue with it is your opposition can see what you are doing and a couple of theatres with museums is enough to counteract you.

    This s a great idea unless they chop in their spaceport, in which case you will have 0 time to sabotage it.

    How about an RV? Do they take religion?
     
  18. salvatorethesecond

    salvatorethesecond Chieftain

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    Victoria thanks for your reply. I really appreciate your civ analysis on this forum, so it's great to hear from you. Your notes on culture output are astute, but why do you put such an emphasis on the Coliseum? I thought it only provided a minimal amount of culture per turn? Or are you refering to amenities and their influence on culture output?

    As for RV, my friend usually takes a religion, but never spreads it beyond his borders. Like I said, he is obsessed with science and only ever goes for that sort of a victory. He thinks (correctly) that the best/fastest way to win is by going for science. He's right, and so it makes it incredibly hard to counter his strategy beyond either 1) going for a science victory or 2) going for him militarily.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There are not many ways to get culture early and if pushing a science victory you will probably not have a theatre in sight. The Coliseum provides +2 culture per city in reach.
    If a RV was faster than a science, or a CV then he would go for that instead. Whatever way you play for. VC you will get you both going for the fastest or go for each other's throats, that's life.
    However, you could do something different like play for the most gold by T200, my eldest had a game with me a few months back like that, it was in fact quite fun, and makes for a different game.

    If you cannot beat the rules, change the rules.
     
  20. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    Hmmm, I think I would go with Russia and try for a religious and cultural victory at the same time. Early lavra spam can get you great works insanely fast, plus the faith. Always good to have a plan B.

    Tundra also tends to have high appeal too.
     

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