Beating Tough Levels

[Peteyboy]

Hi all,

I've been playing Civ 4 for some time now, but I've been having trouble with the higher levels. Was hoping some general advice which isn't on other topics (of which many are useful!) but I find that often I get too far behind to catch up.

I can beat Prince 95% of the time - no problems here
Monarch I beat about 40% of the time - normally by military means - often I'm a long way down before I recover in the long run.
Emperor I've beaten once in about 7-8 attempts - Via Cultural victory - and some luck!

Assume I play Marathon & Map size Standard to Huge (7-10 opponents) with all standard 'Play Now!' settings

Things I find I have to have, to have a chance on Monarch+
(Cracking English that!)

1) Good start location - plenty of happiness resources (particularly as its pure luck (possibly not - not seen a topic suggesting ways to get it spread!) whether a religion is spread to you) and the ability to grow & get settlers.

2) Religion is spread - I find it difficult until I get monarchy to guarantee happiness - and there is only so much usage of slavery - till I find cities are crippled by being too crowded/we cannot forget your cruel oppression. Thus getting a religion spread to you is vital (I find Monarch is the first level you can't be assured of a religion as the computer advantage is too great)

3) Tribal Huts - Without getting a technology I'm often too far behind and find myself being totally out-teched - especially difficult when Mansa Musa is in the game teching with everyone, meaning I get even further behind.

Difficulties I find.

1) Starting - Never exactly sure how best to start on this dificulty - Normally I try to out-tech my opposition keeping just enough strength to fight off barbarians. And if I get the Great Wall then i'm normally on relatively easy street. However I find it tricky on Emperor+ to keep up with tech's plus the barbarians come far quicker and are far more dangerous, and short of having industrious and mass chopping I'm never guaranteed to get the Great Wall.

2) City Expansion - By approximately AD (Marathon speed) I will often have about 4 cities fairly steady, with the ability to hold off barbarian attacks, and approximately -8 to -15 if I was 100% research, I find the maintenance a real crippler at these levels. However, at this stage my rivals often have 7-10 cities, and in turn far superior ability to produce units & research. I have figured that perhaps this is the key, that I should sacrifice most my research to crank out cities - however even then a settler will often take a huge number of turns at which point either I've had to sacrifice population growing in cities, or that trying to defend all cities from barbarians is somewhat tricky.

3) Technology Trading - Here I find myself way down and even if I get to Alphabet fairly quickly (even with my current strategies i'm normally 2nd/3rd getting to it) I find the computer is fair less will to trade, even basic technologies, thus making it tough to trade and catch up later by getting techs like Education which is useful for mass trading.

4) Possibly the key aspect - mainly relating to my general gameplay and particularly issues with Emperor+ Which is military expansion - I often see posts where people are fast rushers and can take many cities early on. But I'm never doing well on the power front - not without sacrficing settlers/worker production. Also there's a reliance on Copper/Iron/Horses early on.

In conclusion - On Prince and below - I find generally I can out-tech and with the computer not expanding quite so rapidly I can normally keep up just enough power wise, and once I get cavalry I can wipe 1-2 Civ's then the rest fall with tank/modern armour. On Monarch, this works sometimes with a degree of fortune. On Emperor+ This stops working almost entirely.

Can anyone help me with my dilemma's? Sorry for such a long post, wanted to be thorough though

Thanks

 

[Supr49er]

It can really help your advanced game to play or follow along many of the games in the Strategy & Tips forum.

 

[Antilogic]

I am a pretty reliable Monarch player (I win most of the games I have started, with different victory conditions), but I have to commend you on winning a Culture victory on Emperor--I've yet to pull that off.

I noticed you didn't include a strong offense in your starting tactics--rushing an opponent, or at least attacking when you have catapults/swords is a solid tactic towards gaining land. You said you typically have about half the cities your rivals do, and that is going to be a serious problem late-game because of their large production and commerce bases. A strong offense helps expansion and keeps an enemy weak.

 

[Peteyboy]

That in a nut-shell Antilogic is where I'm weak. I always find myself weakish at the beginning, generally only so-so vs the barbarians, and struggle to expand - and sure enough, what you've said about lack of cities is precisely where on Emperor I've really struggled, with a few decent cities I get through Monarch, but find I never get enough suitable time for soliders - or strong enough ones to muster a decent force.

I figure perhaps I waste time on buildings, I normally start with a barracks, library, in most cities, but generally focus on city locations with gold as supposed to hammers, which I can change. Is there a case for just building a barracks and once I've got BW and/or IW and securing the relevant resource, just purely cranking out units out of the relevant city?

However I then have the difficult time judging how soon to get a worker or 2, and settlers as they all need considerable time (indeed have been known to chop a settler or 2!)

Also, how do you cope with the high demand of maintenance? This is the crippler when I only have a few cities, its seems to considerably jump from Monarch to Emperor. Whats a good cure for this except mass reduction of research (i.e 30-50%)

Lastly, thanks for the commendation - was a slightly odd game, where I was only at war twice the whole game. I let Genghis Khan effectively block my path who I was friendly with and somehow maintained relationships with all but Catherine who GK was always annoyed with so no Open Borders, both times she declared war on me, I was able to 'buy' him into the war. I got 8 cities in a small space, 4 religions spread to me and I focused 100% on getting the cultural stuff, and just about did enough. Luckily also GK didn't die during the game either

 

[PaulisKhan]

Whats a good cure for this except mass reduction of research (i.e 30-50%)

The only cure for this is "acceptance". As you go up in difficulty that number will usually drop lower and lower.
If you're not a fan of early wars (and you don't have to be) then focus on grabbing/blocking as much land off as possible.

If you can get to pottery/writing before your research hits zero then you will always be able to recover. Up to immortal grabbing alphabet at the expense of some worker/religious techs is easily doable and allows for a rapid backfill of all the techs you skipped, try beelining it more directly than you have been. You can usually pick up enough trades from it (and further tech brokering) to eek out currency/math/CoL and set research at zero to start the sometimes painful process of economic recovery.

There are dozens of alternate strategies that you will become more familiar with over time, but rapid expansion followed by cottaging up the land is one of the most straightforward, explainable and effective means of setting yourself up for long term dominance.
It isn't always so important to build things like barracks/librarys early on in all your new cities, try growing to pop two and then whipping out a worker (with overflow into finishing archer/axeman) from each of your new cities. It could be something as simple as needing more workers that helps you make the next step up.

Settling one of your first cities next to a food source, chopping a library into it and then running two scientists is a nice self contained little trick that will offer a great boost in most circumstances. The great scienist can be used to build an academy in a commerce rich town, bulb philosophy for a massive tech trading advantage, or just settle in your capital to help you scratch out some early missed techs while your slider is stuck at zero.

 

[shulec]

Settling one of your first cities next to a food source, chopping a library into it and then running two scientists is a nice self contained little trick that will offer a great boost in most circumstances. The great scienist can be used to build an academy in a commerce rich town, bulb philosophy for a massive tech trading advantage, or just settle in your capital to help you scratch out some early missed techs while your slider is stuck at zero.

This is invaluable advice. Try bulbing to CoL and Philosophy. These techs are oft neglected by the AI and good trade bait (but of course, never a fair trade.)

Early Worker help:
During your initial explore, use one or two of your warriors to steal workers from your neighbors. There is really no downside. If you are on the border and can see the worker (or worker stack), TAKE 'EM!. The AI won't attack, he will protect his cities. Turns go by very quickly and the AI will quickly forget and your diplomacy will not suffer (now diplomacy is a whole other story!) Is this an exploit? --- well maybe.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

How does one actually bulb CoL? You don't in normal games . You're either going to oracle that sucker, trade for it, or self research.

As for expansion...on marathon/monarch or emperor...well you can have 10 cities by 1 AD easily. But 6-8 is more reasonable since it lets you blow the AI out in tech too. Early monarchy is key. Monarch/emperor is right in the range where I might have to self tech it to get it in reasonable time (otherwise I can trade for it higher up in difficulty and definitely self-research it lower)...else build pyramids.

Good starts: unnecessary below deity, probably unnecessary there too but ask Unconquered Sun.

Religion: Helps if you can run it for diplo and OR/pacifism without getting murdered.

Tribal huts: I suggest playing with them off. They are chancey and at emperor are definitely helping the AI more than you anyway.

If I head alpha early I frequently grab it first on non-pangaea immortal (well...not THAT frequently but probably 40-50% of the time). I'm getting the feeling you're not working cottages/specs soon enough, or you're expanding suboptimally in terms of city sites.

Rushes inherently hamper peaceful settling. On prince, warrior rush. Anything above, you're probably best off expanding unless you're boxed in or have a godly rush UU.

You often have to make concessions to get gwall on emperor but you can just fogbust with archers to take care of most of the problem typically. Otherwise just head to masonry and put the wall up right away. Map size and speed can make the wall range from useless (quick speed and standard or smaller maps) to your best possible investment (high difficulty marathon on larger maps).

 

[shulec]

How does one actually bulb CoL?

OK, you've got me there. I clearly misstated/oversimplified/semantically misspoke.

Regardless, my point that is that CoL is usually a good tech to trade because the AI generally doesn't value researching it once it is already discovered, but is usually willing to trade for it. It is also valuable because you can help your economy "heal" from early expansion by building courthouses which lowers your city maintenance and also gives early valuable espionage points.

 

[krazybastid]

What is the difference between Noble level and higher than noble as far as difficulty?

 

[s.bernbaum]

At Noble neither you nor the AIs get any bonuses. Below Noble you get bonuses, such as extra health and happy bonuses. Above Noble, the AI gets bonuses, such as starting with an extra archer and cheaper unit builds. If you want the specifics for each level, I'm sure that someone who plays at high levels can post that too.

 

[King Kalmah]

At Noble neither you nor the AIs get any bonuses. Below Noble you get bonuses, such as extra health and happy bonuses. Above Noble, the AI gets bonuses, such as starting with an extra archer and cheaper unit builds. If you want the specifics for each level, I'm sure that someone who plays at high levels can post that too.

Is Monarch the level where they start with a free worker?

If so thats the main reason holding me back from stepping up to Monarch.Its almost too big of a difference for me.I can understand the extra happiness or health,but extra workers and archers is too much.If we got a free worker at Monarch or Immortal then maybe it'd make me want to see the higher up levels.

right now I'm happy with noble,but always wanted to test my limits however AI getting bonus just seems loopsided.

Do the AI get smarter on higher levels?

For example do they invade more often or sneak attack more?

If so that is the real reason to step up.Because at noble its pretty straight forward.

Build up a huge force and invade till the research is at 20% or 30% Recover and cottage...then rise and repeat on another continent...

 

[Kid R]

Micromanagement. Diplomacy.

Be comfortable spending long periods in the bottom half of the scoreboard

 

[Norsemen]

Hi all, first post here.

I am currently learning to master Emperor (BTS) and found that it is easier if:
1) I play an ORG leader
2) Prioritize worker techs
3) Build roads to all cities and other Civs ASAP.
4) Rush a neighbor early using horse archers (whip hard), get his capital + a few good cities, raze the rest or just make peace. Elefants + catapults is doable also but I find it more costly. Make sure to research Currency ASAP with scientists and the money you get from concerning cities.
5) Get either Great library, Pyramids or the Parthenon. You don't need all of them and building pyramids infer with point 4 (in case of horse archers)
6) Always ask your self, do I need this building or does my 20 turn goal benefit more if I build Wealth.
7) Tech, bulb and trade. Tech, bulb and trade.
8) Win the lib race
9) Build an army of crussiaders or cavalry during a GA - preferably fueled by MoM and Forges. This is not necessary for rifles since you can draft, but a GA for war buildup is preferable. You should run OR+Vassalage in the beginning and might switch to Nationalism later. Run Police state here if you have the Pyramids.
10) An alternative or complement to 9) is massuppgrades with money from GMs

The trickiest part is religion. You shall adopt one to be able to use powerful civs like OR or Pacificism and get diplo bonuses but you need to know how AI leaders reacts to same or different religion. If 2 neighbors have religion A and 1 neighbor have religion B, you shall seriously consider adopting religion A and stack defenders in a hill city near to B. It is possible to live without adopting but make sure that a least some neighbors are pleased then.

 

[Norsemen]

9) Build an army of crussiaders or cavalry during a GA - preferably fueled by MoM and Forges. This is not necessary for rifles since you can draft, but a GA for war buildup is preferable. You should run OR+Vassalage in the beginning and might switch to Nationalism later. Run Police state here if you have the Pyramids.
10) An alternative or complement to 9) is massuppgrades with money from GMs

Also, if your plan gets screwed up and you can't pull off point 9 or 10, then you need to build an army by wreaking your cities using whipping and drafting.

 

[jordiflor]

Do the AI get smarter on higher levels?

No. That's the reason why the AIs get bonuses in higher levels. It's the only way to make them harder to beat.

 

[Mylene]

They will attack more often on high levels, cos they reach critical unit mass quicker ~~
Basically they do the same silly things, but matters less cos they are faster doing so

 

[jordiflor]

1) Good start location - plenty of happiness resources (particularly as its pure luck (possibly not - not seen a topic suggesting ways to get it spread!) whether a religion is spread to you) and the ability to grow & get settlers.

Open borders with zealots to get their religions spread in your cities. Do not convert to any religion until you have sufficient diplo intelligence - which is the dominant religion? who are the heathens?

2) Religion is spread - I find it difficult until I get monarchy to guarantee happiness - and there is only so much usage of slavery - till I find cities are crippled by being too crowded/we cannot forget your cruel oppression. Thus getting a religion spread to you is vital (I find Monarch is the first level you can't be assured of a religion as the computer advantage is too great)

Research worker techs, do the earthly work, let the AI deal with the heavenly.

3) Tribal Huts - Without getting a technology I'm often too far behind and find myself being totally out-teched - especially difficult when Mansa Musa is in the game teching with everyone, meaning I get even further behind.

Because the AI gets free units and techs in higher levels, tribal huts are clearly an unbalanced advantage for the AI, which will get even more free techs. Go Custom game and switch them off

1) Starting - Never exactly sure how best to start on this difficulty - Normally I try to out-tech my opposition keeping just enough strength to fight off barbarians. And if I get the Great Wall then i'm normally on relatively easy street. However I find it tricky on Emperor+ to keep up with tech's plus the barbarians come far quicker and are far more dangerous, and short of having industrious and mass chopping I'm never guaranteed to get the Great Wall.

Fog-busting. That is, put warriors on top of strategic hills on unclaimed land. This will prevent spontaneous generation of barbs, or at least you will see them approaching with enough time. Have 2-4 chariots for killing barbs.
Don't become GW-dependent. Build it only with Ind/Stone.

2) City Expansion - By approximately AD (Marathon speed) I will often have about 4 cities fairly steady...

Rule of thumb (for standard map) is you should have 6-7 cities at 1AD. Found your 2nd and 3rd cities towards AI lands, to block terrain... you will have enough time to backfill land with new cities.

4) Possibly the key aspect - mainly relating to my general gameplay and particularly issues with Emperor+ Which is military expansion - I often see posts where people are fast rushers and can take many cities early on. But I'm never doing well on the power front - not without sacrficing settlers/worker production. Also there's a reliance on Copper/Iron/Horses early on.

City specialization. Do not build all types of buildings on every city. Build barracks in your production cities, build libraries in you commerce cities and GP farms.
The rest of time, build either welth or units... units... units.

 

[Czacki]

A good suggestion would be to play Monarch and stick to it.

Beating Deity in most games is possible, but requires a certain automatization of play. You need to know all the gimmicks and exploits against the AI. You also need to do stuff sort of like a robot, and in most games you will be doing exactly the same stuff in the same order. It's turns Civ into a minigame of "beat the dumb AI by exploits of all sort" rather than what it used to be. AI is also extremely dumb - the same it was at Noble - it just has everything tripled so no matter how hard you try, you spend most of the game at the bottom of scoreboard. Until, by utilizing "tricks", you win the game.

I got up to Immortal then gave up on "improving" because anything beyond Noble generally means you're just conquering AI's stupidity and not the game itself (any half-smart player with the amount of advantage Deity offers would just trample you, period) And beating the ******ed machine isn't fun.

 

[Mylene]

This is just not true
Watch some AZ videos, see how much fun you can have on Deity.
And on Immortal, i can usually freely pick how i want to play.
You say bonuses for AIs are unfair..but being a human player with smarter specialisation vs. robots is fair?

 

[Czacki]

Not everyone is devoted to playing this game 24/7 for years until he/she gets to AZ level

I have real life. And I don't want to work on the game. Labor =/= gameplay to me

I still consider myself quite a decent player for getting to immortal almost solely by myself and not reading any guides + playing quite casually tho


As for the question about robots: no it's not, hence the solution is to play the MP with other smart humans and not to give the stupid computer +195235230% of everything because that makes the game a whole different meta than it's originally about. It does require you to play specifically aiming at certain AI flaws so you can beat it because you can't really do a 'standard' strategy vs. an enemy that gets +9001% of everything. Which I personally hate

MP is where the real fun starts because it's not a race of exploits but a genuine contest of skill.