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bed_01 - Commercialistic English

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by bed_head7, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    Hastings would be another location to consider. I don't have the time to look at the save to investigate the possibilities at the moment.

    Interesting point about iron working. I just realized that other than at Canterbury, there are only 3 mountains and no hills in our territory.
     
  2. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    Got it.

    Playing.

    Someone -really- needs to post an updated roster, 'cause I didn't know who was next.
     
  3. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    Actually SJ Frank is up.

    I think this would be the correct roster:
    SJ Frank - up
    Hajime - on deck
    TimBentley
    LulThyme
    bed_head7 - just played

    But if you've played it, we could probably slot SJ Frank behind you.

    By the way, Warwick will be better than Hastings for a prebuild.
     
  4. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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  5. SJ Frank

    SJ Frank Spamalot Co-court

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    Location:
    The hill tile S-SE of San Francisco
    Yeah, I'm in the game, and I finished my first set of turns already :D

    Turn 0 1750 BC
    We're running 20% lux for Nottingham alone. York doesn't need MP now, and it will have completed 2 warriors by the time it grows, so I wake the warrior in York now and send him north.

    There is a Carthage settler pair traversing our land. It would take 5 turns for them to get through, and I don't think we have enough units to block them.

    We're down be a lot of techs, including Writing to Cathage. We do get writing at min next turn.

    London is bring in 7 shields this turn. I think that it can go to 6spt and still do the settler in 4, so the mined BG goes to Warwick for now.

    IBT: Writing->Philosophy
    Carthage begins Pyramids. A good thing, I think.
    One more Carthaginian settler pair shows up.

    Turn 1 1725 BC

    Nottingham grows to size 3. I hire an entertainer in there, and lower the lux to 10%. London gets another MP so it should be happy at size 5 with 10% lux. Nottingham will get an MP next turn and road connection the turn after.

    We can research Philosophy in 11 at 90%. Portugal must have not met Carthage yet. Writing can barter almost 4 tech from them, so I'll hold on to it for a few more turns.

    IBT: One more Carthage settler pair from north, and a healthy reg Carthage warrior came up from the south, Does that mean there are no more barbs down there?

    Turn 2 1700 BC

    London grows to size 5, it needs to get the BG tile back from Warwick to make the settler. If we irrigate one more plain tile for London, than it could to the settler w/o waste.

    IBT: Carthagenians are greedy, they also start Colossus.

    Turn 3 1675 BC

    Southern warrior sights a barb camp on the hill.
    London and Warwick MM again to get the settler and curragh both in 1 turn.

    Pull the trigger on the Writing deal:
    Writing + 96g to Portugal for Masonry, Wheel, Bronze and CB.
    We're down Iron Working + WC to Portugal, and only WC to Carthage.

    There is horse right at London.

    Turn 4 1650 BC

    Found Newcastle in the middle of all the bananas.
    Another Carthage warrior in the south, looks like they will take care of the barb problem for us. Thus our warrior goes on an exploratory vector.

    London builds settler.

    IBT: Summerians completes the Pyramids. :eek:
    Iroquois completes the Oracle.

    Turn 5 1625 BC

    Nottingham finishes granary, goes on a palace pre-build.
    Find enough unit (and using the city) to block Carthage Settler next to York.

    Turn 6 1600 BC

    Miss clicked and leave a curragh in sea square, cross my fingers and hope it doesn't cost us.

    Start running a suicide curragh off Carthage coast.

    Turn 7 1575 BC

    Both of our curragh survive for the turn. The miss click curragh finds the southern tip of our island. The suicide currage finds nothing.

    Finishes irrigating London's plain. Warwick permanently gets the BG tile.

    Turn 8 1550 BC

    There is goody hut down south, I hit it and get map.
    Southern curragh finds another island south of our home island.
    Suicide curragh sees coast on the horizon. Come on, one more turn!
    Continue to block Carthage settlers as best as I could.
    Our own settler heads towards the hilly region, hoping for iron.

    IBT: our southern curragh beats barb, goes to vet.

    Turn 9 1525 BC

    Our suicide galley survives and meets the Summerians. :) They still don't have writing yet, but are up WC, IW, Math and Myst.

    Another barb camp spawn up, the Carthagenians are on it.

    The settler blockage is broken down, but we did manage to give 2 of our settlers a head start on them. I'd suggest grabbing the possible iron regions with those 2 settlers. If the Carthagenians settle any where down south, the city will be corrupt enough that we can take it easily in a war, so resource should be the only thing that matters.

    We're just 1 turn from Philosophy, since I haven't seen what the team decides to do with the free tech, I'm going to play just 9 turns and stop here.

    The path that I see are:
    1) Take CoL and get started on Republic. Problem is no GL and there may be war with Carthage on the horizon.
    2) Buy Math from Summeria and get Construction for free. Construction is the most expensive tech.
    3) Not really an good option, but I'm listing it none the less -- get Literature for free. It's not a good option because 1) I think we may not need the Library, and 2) our pre-build is not nearly ready, we could research something else, then comeback and self research Lit and still be in time for the pre-build.

    All the builds are vetoable. I had no clear direction as to what I want to build, so I just continued with what the previous play did, with the understanding that project won't finish before the next player takes the game.

    And of course the next player please take 11 turns to even out the dates.

    I also made a dot map for the south.
    - Red dot allows irrigation to reach the south, and gets all the hill tiles. I'd send one of our settlers there.
    - Yellow dot makes best use of our coastal tiles, and takes the rest of the iron possibilities in the south. The settler closest to that dot is heading towards it.
    - The purple dot is the only one that I can fit fresh water to.
    - The blue dot is saved for us by the marsh
    - The cyan dot fills out the interrior. I picked the one spot that gets all the tiles and is closest to the capital.




    >>> The 1525 BC Save <<<
     
  6. bed_head7

    bed_head7 Chieftain

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    Thanks for posting an updated roster, Tim. I haven't quite caught on to all the responsibilities of a host.

    SJ, nice job trading. The dot map looks pretty good, and now that we know more than just the civs in our neighborhood, I don't think the Great Library is necessary. On the other hand, Construction is pretty popular while Literature is less researched, so Literature will likely remain valuable longer. So I think CoL followed by Republic at minimun, unless we can research it faster than 30-35 turns at max, sounds like the best plan. But I think that now would be a good time to take a short break from playing and discuss where we are going in the near future.

    Nottingham is building a palace, and has 16 shields invested I think. If we are going to abandon the Great Library, which I don't think is a bad idea at this point. We could build a barracks if we think a war with Carthage is coming, but we already built a granary there so that would be a bit of a waste. On a side note, Nottingham can be a 1-turn worker factory once we are out of despotism and once we build a harbor. We could build a regular spearman next turn and then pump out a couple of workers. Or something entirely different, but I am not sure what yet.

    I guess I have one critique of the dot map. I think we could build two interior cities, one north of the freshwater lake, and then another one northeast of the cyan or in that area, with the blue one moving accordingly.

    We have one major problem, and that is that we only have 5 workers with 8 cities, when we should have at least 1.5 workers per city for this terrain as well as extra to make terrain habitable for us in the future.
     
  7. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    I thought Nottingham could be a worker factory, but it can get good production if we want the GL there. I think if Nottingham was the worker factory and Warwick was the prebuild site, it could get the Great Library.

    Currency would be another option, since it is less researched than construction. Construction requires iron working in addition to mathematics. But here is my summary of trading options (1gpt is considered equivalent to 18g):

    Sumeria up WC (165g), IW(2gpt, 271g; 307 total), mysticism(204g), math (writing, 13gpt, 262g; 791 total)
    IW is worth writing, 12g, so writing is 295g

    Carthage up WC (165g), MM (35gpt, 271g is doubtful)

    Portugal up WC (172g), IW(3gpt, 266g; 320 total), mysticism(213g)

    Note that philosophy (which costs less than writing) can be traded immediately using the big picture.

    More analysis will come later.
     
  8. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    Got it.

    Looking carefully at the map.

    My gut reaction is not the correct action so far.
     
  9. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    Okay. I've been looking at this for a while.

    While I personally -highly- disagree with the trade of writing so early on, it is not necessarily bad as we are not necessarily going after TGL.

    What should we go after, guys? My gut instinct is to go after Lit + TGL. It should net us Monarchy + Republic at a bare minimum in the long run - we could safely ignore Monarchy + Republic and let the comps research it for us. This would also result in a net effect equivalent to ToE.

    IMO, that's well worth the shields/etc. needed for TGL. But that's just me.

    Sending a Settler + Worker immediately to the red dot, in hopes of pulling off a blockade of that choke point. From what I saw, it may be possible to have an AI below us, as I've seen no commentary on that so far - but it's been a while since I've played.
     
  10. bed_head7

    bed_head7 Chieftain

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    Nope, we share the continent with only Carthage. SJ found the end of our island during his turns. Unless you feel strongly about the Great Library, Hajime, I think SJ Frank, TimBentley and I all feel it is unnecessary. The Lighthouse might even prove to be more valuable if there are sea trading routes that could be opened by owning it, as well as the possibility of additional contacts. So if we were going to build a wonder, at this point I would be more inclined to build that one. But turning Nottingham into a two-turn worker pump would be even better in my opinion. Maybe we'll wait for input from LulThyme and figure out where we'll go with this.
     
  11. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    I'm not disinclined to go for the Great Library. We could keep up via trading, but we would get more money by building the Library (at the expense of shields, of course). The Great Lighthouse would be useful as well. I think a prebuild (although I think Warwick may be a better location) would be helpful, regardless of which GL we build. The question of whether to obtain literature, whether by philosophy or researching it ourselves, still remains, of course. I'm too tired to more thoroughly consider the question.
     
  12. LulThyme

    LulThyme Chieftain

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    Well the Ais dont seem to have met each other too much yet, so we could play the trader's game.
    Great Lighthouse would be great, especially considering the variant we are playing.
    So starting a prebuild isnt a bad idea, and we still have some time to consider what to do with it exactly.
     
  13. SJ Frank

    SJ Frank Spamalot Co-court

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    Reguarding the wonder situation:

    Just for the sake of a different opinion, how about no wonders :dubious: . Let's make troops and get ready for Carthage. Normally I'm not such a warmonger, but this time I have a gut feeling that They Are Coming...

    About the dot map and worker situation:

    They are somewhat related, because of the 3 Carthagenian settler pairs in our land. They are going to settle 3 cities down south, and they are going to mess up our dots a little bit. We do have 2 settlers ahead of them in the race, so we get to pick 2 choice spots to settle.

    I think they will get one site in the cyan area, which is fine, and another in the river/purple area, which may not be as close to the coast as we'd like, and they will get 1 site south of the red dot. Now, that's doesn't leave much room for our settlers. May be 2 or 3 more (unless we want the sourthen islands), and that's it. Which means that London can start on 2-turn worker duties pretty soon.
     
  14. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    I agree with SJ Frank, personally, especially after looking at the map.

    Looking everything over, I'd say the best options would be warmongering, followed by Glib - which is closely followed by Glight overall.

    Glight has some nice benefits, but the Glib offers guarenteed benefits. Glight is nothing but a risk, and after looking closely at the map, I'm against taking the risk - it does not seem like it will pay off to me.

    However, that -also- does not mean we can only have one wonder.

    We can set two cities to wonder-building, right? ;)
     
  15. bed_head7

    bed_head7 Chieftain

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    No wonders would actually be my preference, but it seemed like there was a bit of a desire to build one. More than one is unnecessary though. THe chance of war is why I suggested building barracks in Nottingham. Maybe it could alternate worker/unit for awhile. I don't really know.
     
  16. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    Bed: Sounds good.

    No wonders then - let's focus on military. Nottingham builds Barracks. Or, if wonders are to be built, we need team agreement on which one to build - as I said earlier, I just don't see the point of the Glight compared to the Glib.

    Now what tech do we go for next, then? Lit is probably not the best idea if we are going down a war path.
     
  17. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    lurker's comment: You can't settle on marsh - that means you or your opponent can't settle there. One reason I don't like marsh. ;) You'll have to clear the marsh into grassland before you can settle on the blue dot.
     
  18. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    No wonders is fine with me. Ginger_Ale, that's the nice thing about the blue spot. The AI can't steal it from us since we won't cut the marsh until we are ready to settle there.

    I would not get mathematics, map making, or mysticism as a free tech, since those are already known. We could buy mathematics (cats are nice for Numidian Mercenaries anyways) and possibly iron working and get construction or currency. We could buy mysticism and get polytheism as a free tech (not sure why we would want polytheism). We could get code of laws and start on republic. Or we could get literature, which would be the best trade bait. The only thing that keeps me from confidently going for republic immediately is the war with Carthage that may come. But I'll say CoL anyways.
     
  19. Hajime

    Hajime Chieftain

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    I'll check into trading.

    If Lit is the best trade bait, and considering all the techs we are missing, it may be worth going after.
     
  20. SJ Frank

    SJ Frank Spamalot Co-court

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    Lit is trade bait not because it's expensive, but because it's something that the AI do not like to research. It isn't uncommon for AIs to ignore Lit until the middle ages. For this reason, Lit is something that we want to self research, perhaps a bit later, to get it at monopoly and trade it for other techs, and it is not something that we want to take as the free philosophy tech, because the AIs will safely ignore it for another 40 or 50 turns.
     

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