Been Playing Civ too Long

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Wether you call it defence or offence, the US has never done anything without having something to gain. Even though the US lacks history, the history of its support to some groups and suddenly cutting relationship with these, is certainly getting back ten-fold now. Too many shortterm decisions, and too few longterm. But I guess nothing wins an election, like a good old war :rolleyes:

I know that the US has always fought its wars with an objective. Thats the point of wars. And the US is notorious for being isolationist up until the end of WW2, when the US found itself as one of two superpowers. Then the sudden switch to having a massive responsiblity caused alot of bad blood which still is around. Not to mention jealosy.
 
it causes fear by in effect saying to criticize the war is to be against our troops, who in the main come from middle and working class america. we are afraid of that, of thinking in a way that might bring them harm, and so much of america doesn't want to criticize the war for fear of what that will do to the troops, because these troops are our family. no one wants to think that their son or their niece or their cousin died in vain. so we as a nation are afraid to face what in the end may be the truth, that this is a war of imperialism, not a war of self-defense. we were sold on that by bush, that we had somehting to fear from saddam, and that this war is a war of pre-emptive self-defense. if we as a nation were accustomed to speaking candidly about our imperialist ways, that lie would have never held water. so they the imperialists keep the fear up so we the nation never discover that we here in the present are imperialists. we don't like to think of ourselves as the enemy.

Yes it is an imperialistic war, but it was also a pre-emptive strike. You don't know a thing about what is really going on there, or a bit of what I know. And as I can't prove anything to you (without breaking my agreement with the government) I am sure that you and others will continue to say crap, that you really know nothing about. But I don't blame you for that, as that ignorance is shared by most people in the world.
 
I know that the US has always fought its wars with an objective. Thats the point of wars. And the US is notorious for being isolationist up until the end of WW2, when the US found itself as one of two superpowers. Then the sudden switch to having a massive responsiblity caused alot of bad blood which still is around. Not to mention jealosy.

jealousy :lol: :lol: :lol: You've been living in a dreamworld Neo!

Responsibilty :eek: :eek: :eek: That's the root of all evil! No nation want the US to be the world-copper.

And at the moment, when talking superpowers, I think the US should start envying China instead...
 
jealousy :lol: :lol: :lol: You've been living in a dreamworld Neo!

Responsibilty :eek: :eek: :eek: That's the root of all evil! No nation want the US to be the world-copper.

And at the moment, when talking superpowers, I think the US should start envying China instead...

You honestly can't tell me that you really believe that nations around the world arent jealous of the US.

And as for no nation wanting the nation to be the World superpower, o well. It is. No nation that is second rate, WANTS to be second rate!

And I agree, China is coming back, but believe me when I say we are watching...
 
Yes it is an imperialistic war, but it was also a pre-emptive strike. You don't know a thing about what is really going on there, or a bit of what I know. And as I can't prove anything to you (without breaking my agreement with the government) I am sure that you and others will continue to say crap, that you really know nothing about. But I don't blame you for that, as that ignorance is shared by most people in the world.

how do you know what i know? you are talking like you are some sort of spy or military officer or agent of some sort, but if you were, you wouldn't be talking about it, especially on a forum like this. am i supposed to fear you now because you have all this knowledge? i am stating my opinion, and you are trying to silence that with fear. if you have a counter-point to make, make it.
 
how do you know what i know? you are talking like you are some sort of spy or military officer or agent of some sort, but if you were, you wouldn't be talking about it, especially on a forum like this. am i supposed to fear you now because you have all this knowledge? i am stating my opinion, and you are trying to silence that with fear. if you have a counter-point to make, make it.

What is wrong with you? How am I trying to silence you with fear? please answer that without babbling. And you also conveiniantly ignored my counter point. And I can tell you that I work with the government, I just can't say how or where.
 
You honestly can't tell me that you really believe that nations around the world arent jealous of the US.

And as for no nation wanting the nation to be the World superpower, o well. It is. No nation that is second rate, WANTS to be second rate!

And I agree, China is coming back, but believe me when I say we are watching...

That's probably the most arrogant statement so far. No, I'm certainly not jealous. And as I see it, your military might work, but everything else is failing... partly because of arrogant views like yours.

And about China... Are you looking for trouble, or whats your problem? I havent seen China attacking all over the world.
 
You honestly can't tell me that you really believe that nations around the world arent jealous of the US.

And as for no nation wanting the nation to be the World superpower, o well. It is. No nation that is second rate, WANTS to be second rate!

And I agree, China is coming back, but believe me when I say we are watching...

accepting your argument that americans have all this power, why don't we use that power to actually advance peace? we as americans could do so much for the good of humanity, but we continue to elect imperialists thinking that it is good for self-defense. if we would learn to look at ourselves honestly, then maybe we would see that other nations have very real grievances against the us government. with that honesty, brokering peace, genuine peace in the absence of imperialism, would become a more practical objective. but instead we continue to believe that we can have peace through dominance. we lie to ourselves daily.
 
That's probably the most arrogant statement so far. No, I'm certainly not jealous. And as I see it, your military might work, but everything else is failing... partly because of arrogant views like yours.

What? I never said that you are jealous. But you cant say that other nations aren't! Thats foolish.

And about China... Are you looking for trouble, or whats your problem? I havent seen China attacking all over the world
Uhhh.. what are you talking about?
 
accepting your argument that americans have all this power, why don't we use that power to actually advance peace? we as americans could do so much for the good of humanity, but we continue to elect imperialists thinking that it is good for self-defense. if we would learn to look at ourselves honestly, then maybe we would see that other nations have very real grievances against the us government. with that honesty, brokering peace, genuine peace in the absence of imperialism, would become a more practical objective. but instead we continue to believe that we can have peace through dominance. we lie to ourselves daily.

I agree that the US could help further peace in the world. But no one is willing to work toward it. The UN has tried, and has always failed, becasue no-one is willing to actually give up anything to make peace last. And the League of Nations failed even worse than that... And since no nation will work towards peace, every nation must work to make themselves powerful, as a deterrent for war, that is the only way peace can be made.
 
What is wrong with you? How am I trying to silence you with fear? please answer that without babbling. And you also conveiniantly ignored my counter point. And I can tell you that I work with the government, I just can't say how or where.

you are making a point that cannot be proven one way or the other and you are using that to add strength to your argument. like "i have these facts that i cannot tell you for security reasons but believe me when i say those facts are there but saying more would compromise if not national security then my livlihood." you mean like facts about saddam's nuclear arsenal? facts about aluminum tubes in nigeria? i don't know if you are intentionally being ironic, but your (non-)argument sounds quite familiar. regardless of where you work, if you have an argument make it in a way that is not ad hominem.
 
I agree that the US could help further peace in the world. But no one is willing to work toward it. The UN has tried, and has always failed, becasue no-one is willing to actually give up anything to make peace last. And the League of Nations failed even worse than that... And since no nation will work towards peace, every nation must work to make themselves powerful, as a deterrent for war, that is the only way peace can be made.

unfortunately there is a lot of truth to this the status quo.
 
you are making a point that cannot be proven one way or the other and you are using that to add strength to your argument. like "i have these facts that i cannot tell you for security reasons but believe me when i say those facts are there but saying more would compromise if not national security then my livlihood." you mean like facts about saddam's nuclear arsenal? facts about aluminum tubes in nigeria? i don't know if you are intentionally being ironic, but your (non-)argument sounds quite familiar. regardless of where you work, if you have an argument make it in a way that is not ad hominem.

I already said once that I couldn't say anything to sway your mind, so why you continue to try and drag this on is beyond me.
 
How can that be misunderstood?

I think you lost me becasue you made it sound like I personally was looking for trouble. If you mean the US, then no, we are not looking for trouble, but we are watching as China re arms itself and expands its military.
 
I already said once that I couldn't say anything to sway your mind, so why you continue to try and drag this on is beyond me.

How can you enter a discussion, without providing facts for your conclusions. Saying that you have facts, but cant reveal any isnt helping anything - I wouldnt believe you. Heck... I dont even believe Bush anyway...
 
I think you lost me becasue you made it sound like I personally was looking for trouble. If you mean the US, then no, we are not looking for trouble, but we are watching as China re arms itself and expands its military.

Oh sorry. I'm not looking for trouble :lol: I meant the US...
 
How can you enter a discussion, without providing facts for your conclusions. Saying that you have facts, but cant reveal any isnt helping anything - I wouldnt believe you. Heck... I dont even believe Bush anyway...

I didnt enter that discussion expecting it to turn that way, thats just what happened. I cant help it, and unfortunatly I cant do anything about it.
 
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