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being denounced

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by rrr11r, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. rrr11r

    rrr11r Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    I was 300 turns into a game where I had friendly relations with the other 5 civilizations. I did nothing like settling in their territory, etc yet all of a sudden without any provocation, they ALL denounced me and started declaring war. Does anyone know what causes being denounced. The only units I had attacked were barbarians.
    I was playing at prince difficulty.

    thanks for any insight
     
  2. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
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    14,895
    Screenshots?

    Were you expanding? Because the AI likes to punch people who's score grows out of proportion to theirs in the mouth.

    Repeatedly.
     
  3. pickle

    pickle Lord of the Preserves

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
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    Location:
    Aotearoa
    I had something similar, I think that the having a friend denounce you penalty is quite significant. I was playing and had good relations with almost everyone but had a long running war with alex, he still won't go to peace with me. anyway liz finally denounced me because she had always been a bit annoyed with me for this war, after that a couple of others that were only just friendly denounced me looking at their info the only problem they had was that a friend of theirs had denounced me and then after that the rest of my friends denounced me citing that friends of mine had found reason to denounce me. after that a couple of civs declared war on me
     
  4. Poomermon

    Poomermon Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
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    145
    Maybe you were close to winning the game if the turn was already 300. As I understand AIs don't take that kind of behaviour lightly.
     
  5. swordspider

    swordspider Dread Multiplayer

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    Sep 30, 2010
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    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    They will attack you if you are on the same path to victory as they are even if you have never had any problems. If one of them was upset because of this and decided to attack you, they can sway the other civs that are their friends to attack. If those guys agree to attack, they can sway their friends to attack you too- it is like a waterfall effect. So basically, sounds like for one reason or another you pissed off a guy who had friends with friends, and then you were the target of everyone's angst.

    I've avoided this situation by simply killing anyone who is on the same type of victory as me (if you go in their diplomacy screen it will tell you in the bottom). This tends to stop the waterfall problem because as you go to war and defeat them, they become less valuable to their allies and thus less likely to convince them to attack you.
     
  6. gcaliber

    gcaliber Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    53
    I recently had a game where I was friends with everyone and I conquered a second city state that was nobody's friend/ally. The next turn every civ denounced me, some were hostile and some were guarded. My reason for doing this was to keep up with Mongolia who had conquered all the rest on the continent already. Of course everyone was friends with mongolia, no denouncing of them at all so it seems biased against the human player.

    EDIT: I should note that this denouncing did nothing since we were all friends again within 30 turns and even at guarded I was being offered fair research agreements.
     
  7. rrr11r

    rrr11r Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
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    makes it hard to play the game if the rules aren't fair
    so the solution is to wait for yet another patch and good luck on that making any difference
     
  8. Mathew

    Mathew Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
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    42
    Does this work against the AI as well? For example, if I'm friends with an AI and then denounce them, does that AI take the same diplomatic hit from the other Civs as I would in the reverse situation?
     
  9. Bobafett0610

    Bobafett0610 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2010
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    In the giant sand worm.
    The new denounce thing is completley broken. They will go to war with each other all the time and still have decent relations with each other. Yet you can have perfect relations for a long time and then when I attacked just one city state that no one was ever allied with all of a sudden I get denounced and all 19 civs declared war on me. This was on immortal/large pangea/20 civs/28 cs. Firaxas needs to stop adding new stuff that doesn't even work. They need to fix the stuff thats still broken first (like civs settleing halfway accross the map and then saying you're settling cities near them! They also need to scrap the whole thing with getting angry of settling cities near borders and take it out of diplomacy as its completley broken, especially on high difficulty lvls where by the time you get your 2nd city the ai already has 6-8 cities and are closing in around you.) Also, they need to tell you why civs denounce you, not have a bunch of possitive friendly green bullets in diplomacy and yet then have the civ denounce you and the only thing it says is (they found reason to denounce you) and your rep drops to hostile with almost all the civs on the map, yet you haven't done one thing the whole game to piss anyone off.

    P.S. - - - FEED ME!!!!
     
  10. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
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    9,445
    In my game the AI also denounced each other.
     
  11. CELTICEMPIRE

    CELTICEMPIRE Zulu Conqueror

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    Location:
    Eastern Kentucky
    Im always being denounced, but im an imperialist agresssor who deserves it
     
  12. MykC

    MykC Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    128
    Things that impact your relation with the AI:
    Level of difficulty... even on settler they will still declare war on you without reason.
    The personality type of the AI... Gandhi vs Genghis
    Things you've done to make them made... declared war on them or other civs or city states, expanded near them, bought tiles near them etc
    Your score... the larger your score the more they dislike you
    Your proximity... just having your capital where it in relation to their nearest city can be reason enough.
    Your relations with other AIs... they might not like it that your friends with another CIV
    You didn't give them what they wanted... money, open borders, research agreement, resources for free, go to war with them.

    But the ultimate factor is your army value. You can check this in the diplo screen. If you at the bottom of the list, it doesn't matter what type of relations you have with other AIs, someone will attack and take your stuff because its easy.

    If you have a large army and your number one. Then you can expect not to be attacked by anyone. If they do declare war on you for some reason, its because they think they can win and your army value isn't large enough (in difference) to deter their desire for more land. But if you do have a larger army, they will almost certainly offer peace after 10 or so turns if you haven't taken any loses and continued to upgrade/increase the size of your army.



    To recap:
    Army size is the main thing that will determine AI aggression towards you.
    Past relations matter little. AIs have mood swings.
     
  13. Paradigne

    Paradigne Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
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    1,552
    Location:
    Texas
    In my current game, Greece asked me to go to war against Askia, so I agreed. After I took a city, he denounced me, so I denounced him. Two other civs contacted me basically saying the Alex was a weenie and deserved it, LOL.
     
  14. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Oct 1, 2010
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    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    I've found that when one AI denouces another, it costs only a little gold to get one of those two civs to DOW the other. I don't know if this is always the case, but it worked both times in my Immortal game.
     
  15. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Sep 28, 2009
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    So lying is not a big factor? If you tell them that you will stop doing something and then keep doing it, I "feel" the AI should probably stop trusting you. I am finding it hard though for them to Dow, when they are outnumbered 1 to 1000. If I reduced my army just so they will Dow me, seems that would take too much effort on my part. Maybe my game would stop crashing though.:mischief:
     
  16. xmen510

    xmen510 Emperor

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    1,456
    Location:
    London Ontario, Canada
    A lot of the same things with me. I am even a Warmonger for going to war on behalf of the contry that asked me too!
     
  17. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    642
    My current game is one of those magical games where everything makes sense (how rare they are!!)

    King/Small/Continents/7AIs/12CS

    It's currently the 1940s... and in all of recorded history...

    My continent is kinda like 2 landmasses connected by a 2 hex land bridge, of course I controlled that bridge quickly dividing the continent... Alex on one side with me, Napoleon and Hiawatha on the other - Nappy is going straight cultural and only built 2 cities, Hiawatha is starbound and has already completed Apollo...

    So I took an early opportunistic DoW on Alex to pare down his too big army.... with plans to cripple him later. He comes to me with the "hiding in the shadows" line, and I wasn't quite ready for the 2nd war, so I'm told him all is cool... which now limits me DoWing for 30 turns or risking the distrust of my BFFs to the east...

    Alex gets huffy with me... so I denounce him! Soon my homies back east do too...

    23 turns in, Alex DoWs.... and I can finally scrunch him... he's got some good Wonders in Athens, so that's a bonus...

    I leave him with 2 cities... One because I don't want the genocide tag, and the second because he offered me a nice little haul in exchange... and I didn't want the 2nd city spot just yet, didn't have a settler ready, and Hiawatha had 2 chomping at the bit to get a foothold on my subcontinent.

    By now I've met Germany, since Biz Markie sent a caravel into Boston Harbor, and we're all tight! Soon I send out a clipper ship and find Ramkhamhaeng and Gandhi chilling with Mark on the other side of the world...

    So now I'm cool with them... they gots my back... plus Nappy and Dances With Wolves are all in on this little hootnanny we got going on...

    Next thing I know is I'm hearing of this place called Genoa that just got swallowed up... but nobody says anything....

    After a while Gandhi comes looking for me to join him in a war against Alex (oh yeah... by now the whole other continent is down on the Greeks)... so I say whynot? And Germany jumps into the dogpile.... I go ahead and take that city spot I wanted... a little to the left actually....

    So now it's the Roaring 20s, and all is well in the world.... and I've since learned that it was Germany who rolled poor Genoa... hmmmm... they are by far the most powerful military in the history of the world, so maybe that's why Siam and India took a blind eye....

    But now Germany rolls into Brussels looking for it's beefy supply of Aluminum... stoopid me for not having bought out Brussels by now.... and I'm thinking... yanno, I've got this good thing going with Germany.... RAs, big trades, the whole nine... so do I dare denounce them?

    Just then, Siam and India finally denounce Markie... so I follow suit, next turn it's my homeboys...

    I try to get germany to stop it's invasion, but the stubborn Belgian mules have declared permanent war despite having no military at all... they won't last 3 turns, so I'm not gifting them units they'll never get to use....

    Just recently Hiawatha, who is getting less excited about my presence lately is feeling the pinch due to having only 2 oil.... so now he rolls into Budapest looking to capture their wells...

    I go to the peaceful Iriquois to ask them to cease hostilities... they'll agree... only if I give them 200gold and 2 luxuries!! Whoa!! That's new!!

    Germany has just asked me to go to war against India... I showed him the door... then renewed my friendship with the Mahatma... they are both nuclear capable, I can't wait to see this!!

    So that's where I've left the game for now....

    I'm about to finish Apollo... so I'm sure Onandaga County Courthouse is gonna be pissed off at me for that anyway... so then I'll likely denounce him for his atrocities!!

    But what amazes me is that I have tried playing nice with all the AIs and was fortunate enough to have a few extra luxuries lying around to be able to acceed to all the "we could use the help" requests... so I've taken no hits there... all the denouncing has been for good reason, and the only hit I've taken is one for denouncing a friend... but I thought our DoF had ended...oooops!!

    And here it is 1942 and there has really only been 1 war... me annexing Greece... sure India and germany declared... but Germany sent one boat, which the Ephesians sunk, and India never showed at all, eventually taking peace instead.

    Even if I don't win (Gandhi is going culture as well, and is quite far along)... it's been fun to watch play out
     
  18. kungming2

    kungming2 Chieftain

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    Location:
    USA
    More than any other civ in this game, Gandhi has declared war on me the most. :lol:
     
  19. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Boston
    I've only played a few games with the new patch installed. I've found that being denounced has normally occured due to any of these factors (or a combo of them):

    1) leading in score
    2) declared war on another Civ and wiped them out
    3) If you're on a small continent and all the good useful territory is used up.

    In my current game on a small continent, my neighbors were France, Gandhi and Ramsesses. I booted France out of the game first due to their lack of resources like iron and horses. Plus France dropped a nuclear bomb on me in Civ II once and I've never forgiven them. :mischief:

    Since then, Gandhi and Ramsesses have declared war on me a few times, and were a tight duo after denouncing me together. I've fought them off twice and after giving Gandhi some of my extra luxuries on a near regular basis seem to have influenced the bond between them a tiny bit. Egypt declared war AGAIN but Gandhi didn't go along for the ride this time, maybe because he was drunk on all the free wine I've bee giving him for the past 20 years. :goodjob:

    Not sure if any of this helps. Just my experiences so far. :)
     
  20. NackteElfe

    NackteElfe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
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    Location:
    CCAA
    IMHO the denouncing is a nice idea but right now it doesn't make any sense.

    In my recent game I was way below average in about every aspect there is. But I had good relations with every one I knew.
    So after some time I decided that I need to take a city state and after I attacked it I was contacted by two civs asking me if I would stop. I declined because I needed that city. After that they denounced me (that made sense).
    Interestlingly one round later the rest of the known world also denounced me (did make less sense)... One round later the known world declared war on me. (didn't make any sense because my military was strong enough to fight them off...)

    But the worst part is the following: After that I discovered some new civ's and after our initial contacts they were friendly. But one round later they denounced me. All of them. And that is just stupid.

    I could upload some saves if someone want's to witness this extreme behaviour. I have even one save one round before I attack the city state when everybody still liked me.
     

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