I suggest you send 2-3 impi (and an axe?) to every nearby capital (build only impi once you get two cities up with your special barracks building) and start squeezing them... you don't have to take the capital cities, just intercept settlers, prevent worker improvements and generally harass them. If he has founded a satellite city with no defensive bonuses, it may be possible to raze those. Once you get catapults, send a few of those to actually take the city itself. This sort of strategy worked for quite a few people in the WOTM where we played as the Zulu.
That's a great idea, thanks for suggesting it Immaculate (and thanks for lurking ) If we play this strat on the 4 AI's surrounding us, it would give us a chance to build our surrounding cities and tighten their defenses. It would also give us some free workers if we do it well.
It's up to Fox to decide how he wants to handle it.
Roster
berserks01 -
frankcor - {just played}
GreyFox - UP
vra379971 - {on deck}
Ozbenno -
Swiss Pauli
How about we build nothing but Impi and Axemen at a 4:1 ratio (1 Axe for every Imp). The Impi can pillage all the metals and horses they can find while the Axes pick-off the warriors and archers the AI is able to sneak through.
With Catapults, we grab 2 AI capitals and we'll then have our 3 Legendary Culture cities. oops ... heh heh heh ... He said "culture" ... heh heh heh
I decided to go for writing, this will enable library, which in turns allow us to run a scientist ... also we can made use of the marble to build the Great Library ... we need the research to stay ahead of the AIs. The library was completed within my turns. We should run a scientists ... we have enough food, and quite a low happiness cap.
After writing, I got masonry.
These are, I think as much we can afford to divert from military tech. Thereafter I started maths to head for construction, the next player may want to change to Iron Working to get swords, but I think elephants fare better.
We are still listed as hopeless ...
War
I have my first combat:
Then, Brenus decides to supply us with a worker:
I continued to strip him of his copper mine and farms. The axe remains there to guard the mine, while the Impi proceeds to head towards Egypt for suppression duty.
Here are the situation in the east:
One Impi found Izzy's new city to the west, guarded by 3 warriors. He took out 2 of them,, with one remaining but the Impi is quite injured. Up to next player to decide whether to take the risk and raze that city.
Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0.4 (Warlords v2.08) - New Log Entries
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turn 39/460 (2440 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:08:10]
IBT: Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
IBT: Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Cyrus(Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 41/460 (2360 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:09:23] Research begun: Writing (12 Turns) While attacking in Zulu territory near Ulundi, 1st Impi of Ulundi (Impi) defeats (2.80/4): Egyptian Warrior (Prob Victory: 95.6%) A Farm was built near Ulundi
IBT: Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Alexander(Greece), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Cyrus(Persia) towards Hatshepsut(Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 51/460 (1960 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:18:18] Ulundi begins: Settler (6 turns) A Mine near Bibracte was destroyed by Zulu Axeman Ulundi begins: Archer (3 turns) Ulundi begins: Impi (4 turns)
IBT: While defending in the wild near Ulundi, Impi defeats (3.60/4): Barbarian Lion (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Turn 52/460 (1920 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:21:26] A Farm was built near Ulundi Tech learned: Writing Ulundi finishes: Impi
IBT: Civics Change: Isabella(Spain) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Turn 53/460 (1880 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:22:24] Research begun: Masonry (7 Turns) Ulundi begins: Library (12 turns) A Farm near Bibracte was destroyed by Zulu 1st Impi of Ulundi (Impi)
IBT: Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards AWC(Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Turn 54/460 (1840 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:24:21] A Farm near Bibracte was destroyed by Zulu 1st Impi of Ulundi (Impi)
IBT:
Turn 55/460 (1800 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:26:13] While attacking in the wild, Impi defeats (3.48/4): Persian Scout (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
IBT:
Turn 56/460 (1760 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:27:09] A Camp was built
IBT:
Turn 57/460 (1720 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:27:52] A Mine was built near Ulundi
IBT:
Turn 58/460 (1680 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:29:18] While attacking in Spanish territory at Barcelona, Impi defeats (2.20/4): Spanish Warrior (Prob Victory: 96.8%) Impi promoted: City Raider I
IBT:
Turn 59/460 (1640 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:31:01] While attacking in Spanish territory at Barcelona, Impi defeats (2.56/4): Spanish Warrior (Prob Victory: 96.0%) While attacking in the wild, Impi defeats (2.32/4): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 99.5%) Tech learned: Masonry Ulundi grows: 5 Ulundi finishes: Library
IBT: Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Hatshepsut(Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Hatshepsut(Egypt) towards Brennus(Celtia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Alexander(Greece) towards Hatshepsut(Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Turn 60/460 (1600 BC) [01-Feb-2007 20:33:25] Research begun: Mathematics (22 Turns) Ulundi begins: Settler (6 turns) A Farm near Thebes was destroyed by Zulu 1st Impi of Ulundi (Impi)
It looks like we have a monopoly on copper right now. We can keep Brennus away from his deposit and there's another copper south of his city that no one is near now. We don't see any copper in the north and west yet. Pretty kewl.
The only thing I don't like is more talk of the Great Library...I thought we were planning to do more war and less wonders? The one I'd think about would be the Oracle (once Marble is connected) because of the huge return on hammers invested. I think we'd be better off letting someone else build the Great Library then liberate it from them.
Then again, can anyone calculate exactly how many turns it would cost us? After all, Impi are only so fast, and we'll have other production cities to chrun them out by then.
To get to Oracle we would need to tech Poly/Mono and Priesthood and stop military production is the capital. To get to marauding Jumbos and catapults we would need to tech Maths/Construction. Earlier Jumbos seems a better plan to me. We should be able to take down an AI or two if we head straight here. Aggression will win the day here I think (says the man who started the Oracle in the first game).
Well, to build or not to build the TGL is up to people ... it does need a diversion to Literature which we should not do until we get iron working or construction. But building library and running a scientist is a necessary step me think. I say we continue to go for Maths and Construction, and see by then if the great library is built before considering whether to go for the great library. In the mean time while learning Maths+construction, we have ample time to build more Impis.
I think Oracle is not worth it, but the same thinking applies. Mediation+Priesthood can be learnt faster than Construction, so one viable strategy is to built the oracle for grabbing construction.
We definitely need to keep pumping Impis in the mean time to go for suppression duty.
If you take into account the time taken to build Oracle, I'm sure teching Construction would be quicker and as we only are likely to have 2 cities, that's a big chunk of our production taken as well.
GL might be worth it though, as we will need Literature for Heroic Epic and might have more cities by that stage as well.
I guess we can base our decisions on how many cities we are aiming to have, and whether we're aiming on playing an offensive game or a defensive game.
Are we planning on just getting ~6 cities and just defending them? Or are we actually shooting on taking out a couple of AIs while creating 3 legendary cities?
we are already on the offensive, switching to a defensive play doesn't makes sense. But I suspect that would change when AI starts to learn the military techs like HBR, and IW, so we have to hasten the rush of Impi for suppression duty. We now have 1 Impi in Eygpt, 1 Impi in Spain, 1 axe in Brennus. We need more Impi to go to Persia and Greece. As long as we can prevent them from connecting iron or copper, we would be fine. (that's why IW is actually pretty needed for us too). We can then slowly build phants to raze or capture cities one by one.
I don't think we should build more than 3 cities ourselves. We would definitely need to capture a few cities preferably with shrines for the second phase of cultural development.
I've had a look at the save, and have the following comments, but before starting, the Gov should be switched on at Ulundi: by emphasizing f/h/c 3 turns can be shaved off Maths.
Strategically, the tech situation breaks down as follows:-
-Maths 19, Construction 31.
-Poly (as we'll later want HE) 7, Priesthood 5. Marble online in 6.
I would go the Oracle route, researching Pottery after Priesthood. I reckon the Oracle with take no more than 6 turns, and we can then claim Metalcasting. In the time between finishing the Settler and completing Priesthood, Ulundi can build more units. I also agree with GreyFox that we'd want IW before Maths/Construction for Iron info purposes.
Tactically, we need to claim the horse/cows/gold site next, if we haven't already lost it to Alex, whom we haven't been choking. I'd go so far as to pull the Axe from the copper to guard that city site, bringing the northern Impi back down ASAP for post duty at the copper.
If we put an Impi/Axe pair or an Impi double team in each of the surrounding AI's capitol, they should be able to sufficiently raze all improvements and prevent the AI from doing much of anything for awhile.
Doesn't HE comes with Lit instead of Poly? Anyway, I think Oracle is feasible. And I'd concur with the IW before Math/Const route.
I wouldn't take Metal Casting if we decide to go oracle (which in fact I think its a waste of hammers if not for the fact that we learnt mysticism and have marble) ... I still think construction is way more important than forges.
Actually, I didn't advocate IW before Maths/Construction. I am just saying it is an alternative. Now that I think of it, if the purpose of IW is only to reveal iron for our pillaging, we can alternatively pillage all mines ... we don't need to know if any of them contains iron.
Going back to big picture, I still favour a metal casting grab with Oracle, but if we're not all agreed, clearly.
If we do go for the Maths-Const route then I think it's more efficient not to get the Oracle and instead research 'by hand'. If we go down this route, we should get Pottery first for (half price) granaries, and cottages on Ulundi's riverbanks.
Actually, I didn't advocate IW before Maths/Construction. I am just saying it is an alternative. Now that I think of it, if the purpose of IW is only to reveal iron for our pillaging, we can alternatively pillage all mines ... we don't need to know if any of them contains iron.
That's an excellent point. I think we should remain on the offensive and I agree we should only build one more city of our own. We'll need a minimum of 9 cities so that we can build a cadethral for every religion we catch in each of our 3 legendary cities if we can spread every religion to all 9 cities. (9 Temples --> 3 Cathedrals).
I'm leaning towards going the Oracle route to get Construction. But I can live with whatever way we end up getting to jumbos, as long as we get there soon.
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(and thanks for lurking 
) If we play this strat on the 4 AI's surrounding us, it would give us a chance to build our surrounding cities and tighten their defenses. It would also give us some free workers if we do it well.
