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BERT analysis

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by ZTZaorish, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. Hail

    Hail Satan's minion

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    I do not think that anyone from Firaxis reads the forum(s). what arguments do you have that anyone from them does read the forum(s)?

    emphasis is mine. that is a bold statement. you surely have proof(s) of your words.
     
  2. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I could argue based on longstanding experience in dealing with community forums and liasing with developers. They read, on the whole, they just don't post.

    But it's often easier, when people start asking for arguments (and usually the next post is to provide "proof"), to just check developer forum accounts and their last activity :)
     
  3. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    There are Firaxians that are forum members. Mods from here have appeared in game expansions, as well as ideas that have been reasonably and civily discussed.

    They're reading... :)
     
  4. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Excellent video!!

    I agree with everything you said. I definitely like the idea of adding a more conversational style (bribes, ultimatums) back into the new diplomacy, and tied with the fear/respect system. You could also add some of the diplo of SMAC. For example, you could offer some energy or some food or some science to boost respect or you could request nicely and the AI would give it to you if their respect were high enough but this would cost respect. Or you could demand energy/food/science etc and the AI would accept if their fear were high enough but it would cost a lot of respect.

    Something like this:
    AI Elodie comes to you:
    "My city of Le Coeur has suffered a catastrophic accident in the vivarium. We have lost a lot of food. We are working to fix the problem but I fear many of our lower class people will die of starvation before the vivarium is fully operational again. Please have compassion on the women and children who will die of starvation if they don't get food immediately. Will you send Le Coeur +3 food per turn for the next 10 turns? We would be eternally grateful."
    Player responses:
    "Yes, we will help a friend immediately". (Capital loses 3 food per turn for next 10 turns, +5 respect points)
    "We can send +1 food per turn. It's the best we can do on such notice." (capital loses 1 food per turn for the next 10 turns, +1 respect points)
    'No, we cannot help you. You should have better prepared in case of an emergency". (-3 respect)

    This would add a lot more immersion into the diplomacy system. It would also give players other ways of affecting fear/respect so that they are not so automatic based on your traits.

    I also really like the UN idea. I loved the Planetary Council in SMAC. I do think that later in the game, civs with the same affinity should be locked into the same voting block to show the unity with like minded affinities.
     
  5. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    Yeah it is a good video.

    Too bad some of us can't say so without being called trolls.

    Moderator Action: If you have an issue with something a moderator does, please take it up with them via PM. Public Discussion of Moderator Action is not allowed.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    You're not being called a troll because you comment on the video, you're being called a troll because you continue to paint the people who disagree with you as people who have not applied critical thought to come to their position, claim that they are not aware of (or willing to acknowledge) the flaws the game has when in reality nobody ever claimed the game is flawless and most people just disagree with your extremely one-sided "analysis" of the game in which you only ever acknowledge the flaws while completely dismissing the things people like about the game. And probably also because you keep making posts that are basically nothing than an "I agree!" to either annoy people or to make the discussion seem more one-sided than it is.

    But I'm sure you're already aware of that.
    Moderator Action: Please do not respond to PDMA. Instead, report the post. Let us get back to the topic of this thread and cease discussing each other.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  7. DefiantMars

    DefiantMars King

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    I don't know why they completely ripped out the traditional civ diplomacy choices. (Though I think Civ V's system mostly involves bribery and scowling at each other) The lack of "instantaneous" diplomatic feedback is what I think some people don't like about the Fear/Respect System (that and the dimensional lack of options to leverage that personal opinion. I think reintegrating the "directed" actions back in would be a good idea. In a sense it would be intergating Quest Decisions into Diplomacy.

    Again, compounding the two systems, in my opinion, would be the best solution. The "base" opinion is traits and how they feel about your stats, but then that gets skewed and altered by your direct interactions. As a side note, I feel there is a way to further pull espionage into the system.

    As a whole I like the idea of Events popping up every now and again, but it makes me wonder; what triggers the events? Does this not happen when there are multiple human players?

    I feel as though this is a dangerous addition, not because it isn't a good idea (I think it is) but it would need to deviate and iterate enough so that it doesn't feel like Civ V's World Congress. I would like to start a deeper conversation about this system with people more familiar with the Council and Congress, as I have remarkably less experience in the matter where Civ V and SMAC are considered.
     
  8. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    I do love the idea of diplomacy quests to add more character to the AI and deepen diplomacy.

    Ultimately it is what the player experiences that matters with AI, and the game could benefit from doing more with them that are not possible with human players.
    _____________

    Beyond my disagreements with a World Congress for gameplay and basic immersion reasons, I really don't think it would fit Beyond Earth's theme.

    Affinities, the fragmentation of colonies into diverse and incompatible visions for humanity's future is absolutely core to the game's theme and should be the dominant shaper of the mid to late game.

    A unified World Congress seems to go completely against this theme of rivalry and growing rifts between colonies, which would be unlikely to unite with their rivals for such action.

    Even if colonies were paired with others that shared their affinity, the system would be deeply fragmented and nonsensical.

    With three core and three hybrid affinities that do not agree with each other, I don't think it is a good idea thematically.
     
  9. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Deity

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    Maybe a planetary council could start in the beginning of the game once you've met everybody (thematically, this could represent the different sponsors not wanting to repeat the mistakes of old earth, and being willing to work together at least in the beginning). But then what civs automatically dropped out once they reached a certain affinity level? This way, you cover your point of affinities not being a fit with the council. Thematically, it would show that in the beginning, the sponsors were willing to work together but as the game progressed, they diverged into different affinities and cooperation became impossible. Now, in the late game, you could either not have any sort of council at all or maybe each affinity could form their own special council? This could set the stage for a possible affinity shared victory idea.
     
  10. ZTZaorish

    ZTZaorish Warlord

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  11. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    I think a simple lack of war early on would show that just as well, with far less complexity.

    Just because the sponsors are willing to coexist at first doesn't mean that they want their internal affairs meddled in by others.

    Indeed, such a thing would be next to impossible to enforce in the early days of planetfall.
     
  12. kipwheeler

    kipwheeler Warlord

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    If I were going to pick a logical time for an international council to form, I'd say invitations to join it should appear right after the first war with the player ends and a peace is established. At that point (in role-playing logic), everyone on the planet has been made painfully aware that colonizing a new world is not enough to prevent the resurgence of warfare. At that point, the factions that want peace start asking their buddies to join them in a world-council.

    Of course, this model would be best for single player games. Multi-player games might require a different model.
     
  13. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    It seems like such a tiny moment in the theoretical timeline that it does not warrant a mechanic.

    The rise of drastically different affinities kind of flies in the face of a UN with teeth automatically forming.

    I, personally, never found the World Congress particularly enjoyable as a mechanic anyway; and this would seem to recreate it just for the sake of it rather than for some major thematic reason.
     

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