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Best and Worse Leader's to start a game

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Strictly early I think either Persian leader is very strong.
    Cyrus is a superb warmonger. Darius has the traits to take advantage of any early warmongering. Pity 1 can't suceed the other like in RL.
    The UB is ok, the UU is IMO the best early rush unit.
    Starting techs - Agriculture gives your workers something useful to do whilst you tech AH and the Wheel, Hunting - well the scouts useful for locating horses and your early targets.
     
  2. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    I too rate Huayna Capac as the best leader.

    The quickest rush ever, and the first building you usually want to whip anyway provides culture... wow. As a bonus, you will often capture this from an opponent's city, which is not the case for buildings that produce culture for everyone.
    From my experience, Quechuas remain effective for a very long time if you keep your opponent off metals or wear down anti-melee troops with swordsmen. You have a decisive military advantage from the get go, and two strong builder traits for the long game... I consider HC an excellent leader even if a Quechua Rush is impractical.

    Other candidates for the top spot: Darius and Ramesses (both also offer a strong rush and a strong economy).
    Honourable mention: Gandhi, as a long-term warmonger, thanks to the ideal economy for the task. He isn't really an early-game monster though.

    I absolutely hate Sitting Bull. Yes, this is mostly an early-game discussion and he gets his bonuses early on... but still. His UU is defensive in nature and actually diminishes his potential for a rush. The UB and Protective make for an absolute defense overkill... sure you're safe in the bronze age but you can't really leverage your military advantage for expansion and all you have going for yourself in the long run is one economic trait... the single one that becomes progressively worse.
    If my civ doesn't shine in the BCs, I at least want to cackle in anticipation of good times to come.

    Dishonourable mention: Catherine. I generally require more help with the economic consequences of excessive expansion rather than the process itself, so I never really felt I got much out of her traits apart from boxing someone in. Free Great Libraries make me drool, but my games are usually decided by then.
     
  3. JustinianVII

    JustinianVII Prince

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    Don't remember their early techs, but two great early leaders in my experience are Pericles and Hannibal.

    Pericles is an absolute culture and tech monster, with cheap Libraries, Theatres, and a killer UB that's also cheap because of the Creative trait. The Phalanx has no effective early counter.

    Hannibal makes for good warmongering, with Charismatic for an easily-promoted army, and Numidian Cavs. A Numidian Cav army mixed of Shock and Flanking soldiers will decimate any early army. The Cothon's extra trade route for the city is a nice bonus, but not so helpful if landlocked. Plus, there's the bonus of the Financial trait for good cottages--a system of Flood Plains is a veritable commerce cow while giving the extra food for growth.
     
  4. mystyfly

    mystyfly Knight of Cydonia

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    Darius is very strong early on.
    Research Animal Husbandry, find and settle near horses, pump out Immortals, capture your closest rival while having to suffer nearly no economical breakdown. With your large early empire, you can easily persue any victory you like.
    As an alternative, you don't war but REX like hell, protected by a superb unit. (See Snatys demo game in his strategy thread)
     
  5. TM Moot

    TM Moot King

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    Definitely gets my vote. I always pick HC :king: when I go up a level. His powerful start sets you up for mid/late game dominance.
     
  6. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Worst early traits, protective, organized. Worst starting techs, fishing, hunting.
     
  7. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    I actually like starting with hunting. Not in combination with myst or fish, but I like having the scout. I like having the terrain revealed faster so I can plan out my strategy asap.
     
  8. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    I agree about starting with hunting. I am also a fan of Snaaty's "use early archers" so it's one tech closer. Theoretically you can tech archery the first tech if you start with fishing and seafood in the BFC or agriculture with farmable land in the BFC.

    The problem is hunting paired with mysticism or mining. The wheel is fine as you can begin AH right after archery and close horses means very early chariots. Mining and hunting leaves no good food to start with, ditto mysticism.

    The biggest problem with Charles, is the traits suck with the starting techs. Sure he can get and early religion or early protective archers (I believe he is the only protective leader to start with hunting), but loses it to lack of food.

    I am curious though why hunting and fishing are a bad combo?
     
  9. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    hunt and fish is a bad combo if you start inland. if you start on the coast, it is alright i guess. however, i just feel that fish is a cheap tech, easily researchable, and not always needed unlike ag/wheel/mining, which are the techs i value most, along with hunt. i like wheel/hunt (kublai), ag/hunt (darius), ag/wheel (hatty), hunt/min (cathy) the most. i also prefer to have creative as a support trait as it helps out early rushing or rexing.
     
  10. DeaExMachina

    DeaExMachina Warlord

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    Qin of China
    Qin has Industrial which allows him to run a Wonder Economy, he also has Protective which allows him to protect himself from early game rushes. The Protective trait is also synergistic with his UU as Drill III Cho-ko-nus are extremely effective offensive weapons. His starting techs are one of the best. <3

    Gilgamesh of Sumeria

    His UU and UB are both early and both extremely useful, the Courthouse UB at Priesthood allows him to effectively run an EE better then any other leader in the early game. His Protective and Creative traits are also great at helping him expand quickly, defend before he can get his UU working and is all around a very well balanced Leader.

    Btw I agree Gilgamesh is a bad leader to start with BUT by mid game is really powerful. The Imperialistic trait does allow you to produce settlers very quickly with a few chops and while I think Imp is a little weak it isn't the weakest (I give that to Charismatic or Spiritual in a late era start) and Protective is by NO WAY a weak trait, you just don't know how to use it to your advantages. >_>

    As for the worst leader to start with...

    Monte, because his Traits are decent but his UU makes you wish you didn't have a UU.

    Toki, because as awesome as his UU his traits don't support an economy. Sure you can build a decent army and in the Gunpowder era you can build a great one but thats all suggesting you can raise an empire that will get their close enough to your enemies to make use. After all Agg/Pro Muskets against Inf just won't work. :p
     
  11. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    Gilgamesh is Cre/Pro, not Imp/Pro.

    Worst leader is Saladin. Bad UB, Protective, Bad UU.

    In the same fashion, do you consider a Monument half a creative leader? Because I certainly do not.
     
  12. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Your right about fishing being limited to coasts. Agr/mining much more universal.

    The think I like about fishing is you can build a workboat from teh get go (great if you got a forrested hill in the BFC) and very quickly have a high food tiles that produces 2 or 3 commerce.
     
  13. Starch

    Starch Chieftain

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    What does UU and UB mean?
     
  14. Desk Jockey

    Desk Jockey Chieftain

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    Unique Unit
    Unique Building
     
  15. Starch

    Starch Chieftain

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    What does you think of G.Washington or F.Roosevelt?
     
  16. Silence101

    Silence101 King

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    I'm still really partial to the Greeks - both Alex and Pericles are awesome depending on strategies. Personally, I think Pericles is one of the best early game warmongers, surprisingly enough. PHI is tailored more for an SE which helps with military expenses and early aggressive expansion, and Creative is great for jumpstarting culture in newly aquired cities. Plus, his UU is early and deadly, and his UB isn't too shabby either.

    Hattie, with her ability to change civics on the fly and the same cultural advantage as Pericles is also a powerful starter. The egyptian UU is one of the better early UU's in the game... it's awesome to rush with. If you can get AH/horses and pump out a bunch before anyone gets spearmen, it becomes a huge military advantage very early. War chariots can almost take fortified archers 1:1.

    HC is probably a great leader to start with - I just don't like the guy. He bugs me... so I don't really like play him.
     
  17. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Americans are my favorite civilization in the game. They are well fed starting with Agr/Fish, the UB is pretty stronge, the UU great for late game amphibious work.

    Roosevelt has my 2 of favorite traits although I will agree with most that Industrious is a mid-level trait. He is my favored leader.

    Washington get's off to the best start of all in city size thanks to the extra happy and health. Also fast graneries help alot. Second to HC in my book only because of the late UU/UB.

    Lincoln. Played once and damn he is good. Charismatic for effective warring while Phil get's alot of early GPs. Limited on the early start because his second trait is not leveraged very mich until after the time period in question.

    I am one of those CIV players that enjoy the entire game from beginning through teh modern era, so the late American UU/UB do not bother me.
     
  18. Silence101

    Silence101 King

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    I don't think there's anything wrong with that - I can respect that you like the late game UU/UB. Personally, I think that a late game UU/UB presents an inherent disadvantage, but I want to reframe your statement by mentioning that it doesn't have anything to do with enjoying the game from the beginning through the modern era. I like the modern era too.

    Early UU/UB's create an early advantage which can be sustained an compounded upon throughout the game if used effectively. Late game UU/UB's, while presenting an advantage as well, don't allow for as much capitalization of their advantage... simply put because there's not as many turns left.
     
  19. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    You are absolutely correct about the advantages of the early UU/UB.

    The Americans start off very nicely because of their traits (not a weak combo amongst the three) and starting techs. Very early nice cities. They can stagnate mid-game which is where you need to keep things going, but they ramp up late game. Same with the Germans. These 5 make refreshing games, stay competitive or even get a lead then things get better and better.
     
  20. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Mining I'd pick over almost any starting tech. The wheel is necessary for rushes. Mysticism is very helpful for religion/wonder races, and needed for some blocking schemes.

    I guess agriculture over hunting is more of a toss up, but I tend to like agriculture.
     

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