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Best and worst UU/UB?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by salty mud, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    :D Than I better don't say anything about East Indiaman.... Ability to go where it wants (haven't chekced, but should be able to stay in enemy teritory even after declaring war) and 4 to 1 chance of sinking enemy galleons (full with units), same time carrying 4 not 3 units... part of my Dutch strategy :)
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Sigh...at least fact check things like this before trying to "correct" someone.

    They just have 3 moves instead of 2. That is it. That is also all they need to be one of the best UU in the game, because they can move onto forest or hill tiles and still start the improvement, or move 2 tiles and start an improvement. They are much better on normal or quick than marathon. On marathon an early military UU is probably better since movement turns have such a trivial impact.

    It's very all or nothing, because it is a boat. Utterly useless on land maps, it goes all the way to "freaking broken" on water maps, because any dedicated fast bulb/tech path to astro will get there far sooner than people can get chemistry + astro. Now you have a fast unit that can blockade people to hell and fork cities and there is literally nothing they can do about it...no counter at all, period...for dozens of turns.
     
  3. SamSniped

    SamSniped DJ Goodboye

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    Best UU:
    1.Cataphract-A 12-strength knight. what's not to like?
    2.Praetorian-amazing rushing
    3.Landshknect(did I spell it correctly?)-bonus against Melee units.
    Best UB:
    Rathaus. 'nuff said.

    Worst UU:
    Impi-what good does it do?

    Worst UB:
    Erm...I don't know.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    This is equally terrible to saying the fast worker is the worst UU. In a thread composed of subjectivity, it's flat out wrong anyway :lol:. Oh. I get it now...you were also kidding :lol:.

    Dropping a 2 move spear with mobility promo behind things like the panzer is a travesty too.
     
  5. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

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    No, it's spelled "landcrap".


    Actually, it's Landsknecht.
     
  6. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Landsknecht are of little value, as unless you get very early to them, crossbows, longbows and catapults blow them to pieces.
    If you can get Landsknecht vs archer, axe and sword, then Landsknechts and Trebuchets can clear the map.
    The problem is, so can crossbows and Trebuchets. But the Landsknecht is marginally better (paired up with the x-bow), as they are not as vulnerably to war elephants.
     
  7. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Elephants are mounted. Pikes fight them with the same effectiveness...

    LK gives you a slight boost in stack defense against melee, as in if they break through your xbow the LK can hold up at ~50% odds (a little better, favoring LK) vs maces. Whoop dee do. Even ONE round of collateral, or the maces having shock and they still lose :/.

    There's nothing wrong with a pike but LK adds little beyond it.
     
  8. HorribleHarald

    HorribleHarald Warlord

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    Worst UUs:
    Phalanx, Panzer and Ballista elephant,
    Their benefits are too specified.

    Best UUs:
    Praetorian and Cataphract,
    They have got +2 strength.
     
  9. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    No, I was comparing LKs to X-bows, not Landsknechts to pikes.

    Yes, exactly.
     
  10. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Yea huh, the seowon. Then that would be a good ub.
     
  11. uat2d

    uat2d ಠ_ಠ

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    It's also nice that Wang is Financial. If instead of he being Protective, he was Philosophical, for example, it would be much better.

    Perhaps even better would be if he was Creative rather than Protective and the Seowon replaced the Library rather than the University, but then that could be easily overpowered.
     
  12. reddishrecue

    reddishrecue Deity

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    Yes, carracks can make a big difference in founding cities first in the new world or landing units earlier in the map. That really depends on the map. Worst uu switched to phalanx in a archipelago or terra.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I don't see how Phalanx is WORSE than LK or gallics or other units that don't get to accentuate their unique benefits on archi. In fact, I'd say the panzer STAYS the worst UU, since on archipelago tanks are not very useful in general.
     
  14. tdy99

    tdy99 Prince

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    I'm playing for the first time ever as the Ethiopians right now. I'm liking these Drill IV musketmen (oromos) that you can get just by running theocracy.

    Any unit that can start as a lvl 4 right out of the gate is fairly strong.
     
  15. uat2d

    uat2d ಠ_ಠ

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    Perhaps in this case, the Quechua goes from being of the best to one of the worst.

    There isn't really any use in having them if by the time you get to use them, they're already obsolete. At least the Panzers could still have some use vs enemy tanks, whereas Quechuas are absolutely useless versus Axes and the such.

    EDIT: I'm talking about an isolated start on Archipelago without barbs.
     
  16. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    They can be built for cheap HR garrisons and they don't obsolete as fast as regular warriors.
     
  17. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    When you go isolated w/o barbs, all early military UU lose value though.

    At least quechas add a small convenience (can build them w/ hunting and metal hooked up) over the others, and since you get a +:hammers: bonus for having a strat resource hooked up in a city it is technically STILL worth more than all alternative other early military UU :rolleyes:.

    Actually since they start with combat I they also allow things like amphibious @ 5 xp (can be upgraded to be useful with that), though that won't often be practical it gives them yet another small boost beyond "worthless" :lol:.

    Still, on average the panzer is the worst UU in the vast majority of games, excepting perhaps modern starts.
     
  18. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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  19. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    No, what you are saying isn't accurate at all.

    Most UU are NOT so strong that absolutely nothing in the same era can get winning odds against them:

    War chariot + Immortal: spears are still more cost effective head to head
    Prat: Axe is more cost effective head to head
    Redcoat: Grenadiers still beat them badly when attacking them.
    Cossack: Still loses to rifles
    Panzer: Still gets its pants pulled down by anti tanks, air power, nukes, siege, etc.

    However, the Dutch UU is different. When there is no water, it isn't worth anything at all. When there is meaningful naval combat, NOTHING that can be produced at remotely the same time can defeat it head to head. I think this is a developer oversight; perhaps astronomy was not intended to be so easily bulb-able, but it is. Suddenly there are 6 str ships other civs literally can't touch in terms of odds for a long, long time (chemistry).

    Maybe the closest land UU to that is the skirmisher, because if it reaches a civ before it gets metal, that civ is probably toast. Archers get ~10% odds against them in the field...so if someone skirm rushes you and you don't have metal or horse hooked up yet, you are Inca or you are dead.
     
  20. geowzrd

    geowzrd Warlord

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    Best UUs: Praetorian, Samurai, Immortal, Vulture, Janissary, Conquistador
    Worst UUs: Dog Soldier, Ballista Elephant, Impi, Musketeer
    Best UBs: Forum, Salon, Citadel, Stock Exchange, Obelisk
    Worst UBs: Dike, Shale plant, Mall, Mausoleum, Pavilion
     

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