Best BTS Warmonger (not counting Rome)

[Skallagrimson]

I'm a Cyrus addict. The synergy with Great Wall is just HUGE, IMO, and even after the UU is obsolete, the traits just keep on piling up the goodies: promotions, EPs, GGs... it's warmonger heaven.

2nd place to Genghis. Strong early UU, although the traits aren't as ideal or synergetic as Cyrus' IMO. Late game you start to feel not-so-powerful.

3rd to Shaka. Not so much for the UU but the UB keeps the economy alive, which is often a bigger challenge to early warmongering than the wars themselves.

 

[dankok8]

In SP, it's Cyrus followed by Ghengis and Boudica. Immortals + Cha + Imp is the winning combo for me. Ghengis is obviously ridiculous with Keshiks and Gers. With CI/CII, you get 7.2 strength units with a first strike that have 2 moves regardless of terrain = STRONG. Agg and Imp are good warmongering traits. Boudica has the 2 purest warmongering traits in Agg and Cha and has that Gallic Swordsmen that many underestimate. A CI/GI/Cover Swordsmen can be obtained with just the Barracks often as soon as you research Iron Working assuming you already have Copper. If you give a few GII instead of Cover, you don't need to bring Axemen as stack defenders and you can have more attackers. I rarely play water maps, but in that case Ragnar becomes the best by far if you ask me.

In MP, I have to go with Alex. Agg gives you a huge edge with the ability to get that second promo like Shock or Cover and Phi helps you run an SE. Phalanx is also huge and has synergy with Agg... Agg Axemen that are immune to Chariots are not fun to face. A concentrated early rush with Phalanges is unstoppable unless your enemy is also Agg and has been spamming Axemen or is using Sitting Bull. Even then, there is little he can do to prevent you from choking him and pillaging around. Against the AI, Phalanges are not that great because AI won't build Chariots in appreciable quantities.

 

[Cashew]

A multiplayers perspective:

Persia is really hit or miss. I've seen people finish off 2 or 3 people by themselves before turn 50 with Persia, but a lot of the times your horse will be just a little too far or your enemies' metal just a little too close. If people see that you have horse they're going to build spears asap. Course, prior to that the immortals absolutely destroy... but... again it's too much of a gamble in my opinion.

Egypt is the same thing BUT I think because of their base increase in strength they last much much longer as a potential stacking unit. Also, they're much better at intimidating people into building an army of spears which will crumble before an axe stack. Overall it's an interesting civ and I actually think Hatshepsut of Egypt is better at early game warring than either of the Roman leaders.

Zululand is an ok warmonger civ. I'd put it at parity with Rome given the fact that any decent player you meet is probably going to have a lot of axes so Impis really aren't that great for city capturing. The exp/agg traits on shaka are fantastic for early warring though.

Alexander can be very good. Not needing to build any spears makes a shock phalanx fairly formidable en masse. But the philo trait only comes in to play in free for alls... I'd say even in a CTON the philo trait is mostly useless. Because of the trait weakness I'd put it at parity or slightly below Shaka and Rome.

Aztecs are awesome, I just wish spiritual wasn't the second trait. If you're lucky and get an ideal start you're almost guaranteeing you're gonna make life hell for your nearest neighbor, but even with an only average start the aztecs are a nightmare to fight against if you have a lot of forests and jungles (which is really common on most multiplayer maps). Although I believe they are slightly better suited to teamers I'd still put them above Rome etc. in a free for all because of how often you'll be able to kill your nearest neighbor with jags.

Boudica and Genghis/Kublai are both leaders I'd put below all the aforementioned except for maybe Persia. Their UU's are only going to make a difference every now and then, and leveraging their traits consists of doing exactly what you'd do with any other war monger.

 

[gfm]

My vote goes to Shaka, for the synergy between traits, UU, UB and general strategy.

• His UB makes war more sustainable (especially early war) and it's cheap thanks to his aggressive trait
• His fast and early UU benefits from his aggressive trait
• His expansive trait halves the cost of the Slavery-empowering granary

The guy backstabs, builds a ton of troop, doesn't care for religion and his favorite civic is Police State. Better play as Shaka than against him .

 

[JTMacc99]

I personally love the Charismatic trait even more than the aggressive trait when it comes to a long game of war mongering. Level 4 units are either devastating specialists (pikes with formation, city raider III swords/maces) or outstanding multi-taskers (formation gunpowder units, combatII+Medic ships in a stack) and getting them at 8XP is way easier than at 10XP. Heck, once dry-docks are in play, you're building level three ships with no civics input.

So my favorites are Hannibal, Napoleon and Cyrus. The French don't get a helpful UB, but the organized trait is good one for keeping the war machine rolling. The UU is fine if you don't mind changing your tactics a little bit to use it effectively.

I also had a good time with Churchill, but that wasn't as much as I thought it would be. Stupid protective trait was no help with the early economy, and it wasn't until Banking that I really got going. After that, I built/drafted a gigantic number of cannons and Drill IV redcoats.

Boudica is excellent right out of the gate, but I really need to capture a holy city or something to help with the economy for her. A sound economy is really important for effective war-mongering.

 

[Agramon]

Asoka is a real beast in the human hands. Spiritual really shines at the slow (warmongering) speeds for military as well as for economy ;-) Organized to pay for all that heavy civics is nothing to sneeze at. Neither are courthouses ;-)

You can start warring at almost any time. Bronze rush one tech away. Expand until you hit your neighbors borders, and start spamming cats. Or switch to vassal, theo (,police) to beat you neighbor with heavily promoted units, while running Pac (+rep) in the mean time. Just remember to chop the mids at a suitable occasion ;-)

 

[Cashew]

Why would you chop pyramids if you're going to warmonger... that's like... 10 axes right there.

 

[michmbk]

I love the organized trait for warmongering - take those cities, and whip a courthouse for 2 pop. Fantastic. My best scores have been warmongering games with JC, Napoleon and Asoka - see the trend?

The Asoka one was especially easy - switch to vassalage, theocracy, slavery, whip a few units. switch back to caste, bureacracy, and org religion, build infrastructure. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat and watch the empire and score grow.

 

[tycoonist]

hannibal doesn't need a good UU to be my favourite

 

[duckstab]

I've been having fun with Hammurabi. Aggressive for the obvious military benefits and Organized means you can get courthouses up quickly in all your conquered cities. Of course, Babylon's UU isn't all that great.

 

[Agramon]

Why I chop the Mid's? Because I can (playing on Monarch ;-) still) I'm not exactly purist as a warmongerer. And the Pyramids save my economy quite nicely, after each crusade ;-) If the occasion arises that is.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Pair Charismatic to any good trait you get a nasty warmonger given tech parity.

Brennus
Napolean
Cyrus
Hannibal
Churchill

But if you play a good game with a strong overall leader, Infantry against rifles makes any leader a "great" warmonger.

 

[madscientist]

Asoka is a real beast in the human hands. Spiritual really shines at the slow (warmongering) speeds for military as well as for economy ;-) Organized to pay for all that heavy civics is nothing to sneeze at. Neither are courthouses ;-)

You can start warring at almost any time. Bronze rush one tech away. Expand until you hit your neighbors borders, and start spamming cats. Or switch to vassal, theo (,police) to beat you neighbor with heavily promoted units, while running Pac (+rep) in the mean time. Just remember to chop the mids at a suitable occasion ;-)

I was actually going to add him as an honorary War-Monger with no warring traits, but I forgot. I agress with all you said about Asoka!

 

[feralminded]

My favorite is Hannibal because CHA is my favorite warmonger trait and his UU is as close as it comes to uncounterable. The fact that his UB is good on most maps and he's FIN really don't hurt him in any way. I mean really warmongering under CHA is just crazy ... you get to play with promotion combos you'd never consider any other way (Anyone ever get themselves an entire stack of CIII/March/Commando Calvary with a non CHA leader)

That said is it too passe to mention Incas? Of course its hard to really call that warmongering since there's not much finesse to making your 1st Expansion an AI's 1st expansion and your 2nd Expansion his capital by maybe turn 60-70.

I guess when it comes to actual warmongering I favor Hannibal and Genghis because their units are awesome but also really allow you to be flexible and react appropriately. There's some finesse in there. Same with Shaka. People act like Impi's suck against Axes ... but what AI has more than a couple Axes when you are using Impis? If they have metal hooked up you aren't playing your UU right ... lol.

Its easy to mention Persia and Egypt and Sumeria but their UU's just don't feel as fun as the HA's and Impis. Yeah probably better since they're more foolproof ... but not as fun and flexible. And for long term warmongering AGG/CHA matters a lot more than the UU anyhow.

 

[Loge]

No love for Zara? ZY's got two great traits for quickly assimilating your new cities into your empire. First thing I do in my new cities is whip a courthouse, then a library. Organized just seems like such a great warmonger trait. And the UU is very effective--and it retains those extra promotions through upgrades.

 

[ds61514]

Its easy to mention Persia and Egypt and Sumeria but their UU's just don't feel as fun as the HA's and Impis. Yeah probably better since they're more foolproof ... but not as fun and flexible. And for long term warmongering AGG/CHA matters a lot more than the UU anyhow.

How are Persia/Sumeria/Egypt's (esp. Egypt) UU not as flexible? They come early enough to double as barb defense and don't require a dead-end tech to unlock.

For long-term warmongering, Spiritual > Agg. Since BTS' "default" strategy is to tech to Renaissance+ units, Agg does almost nothing during that period, while Spi does.

As for CHA, it's much closer, but not because of the promotions bonus; it's the extra happy faces and the resulting boost in economy. You said:

Anyone ever get themselves an entire stack of CIII/March/Commando Calvary with a non CHA leader

But what's the point of getting 5+ promotions if it's Cavalry v. Longbows?

 

[SnowlyWhite]

asoka, brennus, hatty, just; spi baby

 

[Iranon]

Asoka for me as well. ORG and SPI have considerable synergy here - some high-upkeep civics are mostly useful for warfare or at at least preparing war.
The trait combination also means I am very flexible in applying my economy - all-out warmongering into recovery into bootlicking (accepting silly civic change demands to net myself valuable war allies, which becomes a lot more useful on high levels).

For peaceful building I'd prefer something with a little more raw power than SPI, but it's perfect to push hard for whatever a thoughtful warmonger needs at the moment.

***

I'm also very fond of Montezuma, despite my utter contempt for the AGG trait (yes, even for hardcore warmongering. Too often, my wars are won by siege units rather than melee/gunpowder troops). Cheaper courthouses that let me slave more efficiently are imo the game's biggest production edge, and will last me the entire game (I'm a big fan of Kremlin-assisted whips in the endgame).
Shaguares also have interesting tactical applications, whether blindsiding the AI or providing you with unlimited backup healers for smaller stacks running rampant.

***

Quite a few other leaders are good in specific circumstances... Hatty or either Persian if you are in a position to rush and have early horses, Elizabeth if you intend to play dead before a massive Renaissance bloodbath and so on. Still, I don't find anyone else as dependable as a warmonger.

 

[feralminded]

How are Persia/Sumeria/Egypt's (esp. Egypt) UU not as flexible? They come early enough to double as barb defense and don't require a dead-end tech to unlock.

They are less flexible because they are much easier to leverage. I guess what I'm saying is spamming immortals or WCs is pretty braindead ... not quite as braindead as Quechas ... but still plenty braindead. At least through immortal I have no trouble running over any AI within 20 tiles of me by 1000BC ... even PRO (although that gets more hairy). Now just because you can do it doesn't mean its necessarily better ... but its still there. The HA UUs, on the other hand, come at a time when the AI is no longer vulnerable to cheap rushes so its really up to leveraging your units and this is where the "gaminess" of those two units comes in. I love roaming around with a pile of Keshiks or Numidans and completely out-maneuvering the AI. It "feels" like I'm doing more ... its more fun because its more dynamic. I won't argue that they're stronger ... hard to deny a Quecha ... but more fun for me when I want to warmonger.

For long-term warmongering, Spiritual > Agg. Since BTS' "default" strategy is to tech to Renaissance+ units, Agg does almost nothing during that period, while Spi does.

Oh I completely agree. I abuse SPI relentlessly and can completely get behind that statement.

But what's the point of getting 5+ promotions if it's Cavalry v. Longbows?

What makes you think thats the situation? Even with my earliest libs on Emperor I rarely get that kind of an advantage.

 

[Artichoker]

Rome by a mile...

After that, it's hard to say without trying all of the leaders myself. But I'm more inclined to prefer Organized leaders that have some military advantage in the form of a UU or a trait. Darius comes to mind because of the Immortals (having both Organized and Financial doesn't hurt either).