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Best Civilization for a "turtle" style player ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by rikuharada, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. rikuharada

    rikuharada Chieftain

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    My goal is trying turtle up and tech up as fast as I can to Future Era then start to go conquer nations. I try to do this with America and Greece, so far I fail because other nations declare war left and right on me and I dont have enough gold or food to defend the constant harrash with 3 cities (trying to make super cities to gain alot of beakers)

    Any advice on what is the best civilization I should play as with my style ?
     
  2. Haliit

    Haliit Chieftain

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    Definitely look at Babylon. Walls of Babylon+Bowman is a great defensive combo in the early game, and settle your free GS from Writing for a quick early tech -up
     
  3. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    Start in modern era, so you dont have to play a boring game all the way to future.
     
  4. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    Korea is good for turtle games as well, so is ethiopia.
     
  5. nefloyd

    nefloyd King

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    I've tried stacking Walls of Babylon + Tradition + 30% pantheon belief and its just...underwhelming. It's not really more effective than just having a second unit on hand. Bowmen go obsolete fairly quickly and have no long-term promotion to pass forward
     
  6. HelloGoodbye123

    HelloGoodbye123 Warlord

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    I cant think of a civ apart from ethiopia

    Sure babylon is nice with their walls/bowman but i have rushed countless babylonian players with my aztecs, they arent invinsible either

    Korea might have the neat weapons, but they arent there the entire game, they obsolete after a period.. and then what?

    ethiopias bonus remains throughout the entire game as long as you are cautious with your gameplay, they also have a religion advantage to where you might be able to get your religious perks first, getting the enhancer belief that adds another 20% strength to units near friendly units, add a great general and samurai, and you will be quite powerful, once you get those riflemen which apparently add another 20% strength near friendly city, you will have like +100% .. or something like that !!
     
  7. Harv72b

    Harv72b Prince

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    Where that setup rocks is when you're playing on a slower game speed & you have good, defensive terrain around your frontiers. You can hold off an entire army with one bowman and your superwalls. :D

    That said, I think Babylon's biggest strength in a turtle game is that the increased GS birthrate allows you to keep up with the AIs in the tech race without having to build a ton of cities; the bowman/WoB combo just help in getting you past the early turns & into a tech parity situation. I also tend to think that they'd mesh best with the OPs game plan.

    One other option, rikuharada, is to adjust your map/game settings to allow more time before the civs really start to bump into each other. Either lower the number of AIs from the default setting for your map size, or go with a map type like Large Islands which will afford you your own mini-continent, which you can turtle on until you're ready to begin your conquest.
     
  8. GhostSalsa

    GhostSalsa Emperor

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    You can give France or China a try, too. Both have a UA (free culture or free honor-path-lite) that gives you flexibility to focus on other elements (science and gold). Flexibility is the best. It give you one less thing to worry about and I find that is often more helpful than a direct push like Babylon has.

    Both transition into late game with units with great promotions.
     
  9. teakbois

    teakbois Prince

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    Couple of generic things:

    Archers. They are your best friends for defense and a city (especially if on a hill) with 3 archers will be pretty tough for the AI to take for a long time.

    If you are playing on Emp and lower, grab a religion and eventually you can (probably) grab defender of the faith, which will give you a nice defense bonus. Wont kick in for a bit and no guarantee the AI doesnt take it, but its usually there.

    If you happen to spawn any great generals you can put down a citadel and the stupid AI will hurt themselves on it.

    Try to position your cities where one will take the brunt of the attacks if possible, and at least make sure you can mobilize your archer army around them

    Gold: If you are going tall try not to waste a city without a couple luxes near it (if you get a nice mountain + river tile though, that might be a science monster so dont pass that up). Sell luxes to AIs. Sell all horses and iron (but not to your close neighbours). Distant civ wants open borders? Dont take his, just offer yours for 50g.

    If you get stuck in a DoW and he keeps harassing you for gold and a city as peace, after he retreats send a scout or an archer to his border. Sometimes he will think you may attack and be willing to do an normal treaty. Far from a guarantee to work, but Ive seen Atilla cower in fear of a lone scout before.

    If you have a nearby CS in your neighbours path to you try to ally it because it can help out if you get attacked.

    Just remember sell all luxes you dont need. If you have excess happiness, dont be shy to sell your last copies (just plan so you wont go unhappy before you get it back)

    Ethopia might be the best because of their UA, plus the stele should help you get a religion (pretty much guarantees it on Emp and below)
     
  10. aguliondew

    aguliondew Prince

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    So you want to turtle and tech up to future era. Pick a civ that have a good science bonus or defensive unit. The rest is about your spawn location, knowing who is around you, picking out the best city spots early(luxury/jungle for science), so you can get some walls up. After that make sure your frontier city keeps up with the city defensive, while your other city supplies it with archers/pikemen.

    Like people have mention citadels are the best defense for a city. Place them one space in front of your city, so the enemies will have to stop before they surround your city to attack. You can also place them behind rough terrain so no range units can attack it and melee unit will have to wait a turn to attack it. The AI is bad about knowing when they have to do an indirect approach to attack or knowing that some city can not be taken without artillery/bombers.
     
  11. Rex_Mundi

    Rex_Mundi Prince

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    To play like that your biggest challange will most likely be keeping up in science. Maybe fending off the first rush from an agressive neighbour.

    Babylon and Korea are optimal for that, maybe consider India as well.

    Keep defensive possitions in mind when you settle your cities. River, swamp and hills are your friends.

    You should focus on growing your cities as large as possible. Run all the science specialists you can.

    If you start with one of the very aggresive neighbours (Alex, Genghis, Attila...), consider finishing Honor as the second policy. It will litteraly be worth thousands of gold.

    Also get the policy that move city state resting point up to 20 and declare protection of every citystate in the world. You will tale a litte diplo hit from the major civs that bully them but the friendly bonus will be huge for a tall empire.
     
  12. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    For a slightly different approach, you may want to consider the Incans or the Dutch.

    The Incans have a hill starting bias, which leads to good production (letting you snatch up good wonders). Their UA also means that you get prime hill locations for your cities without losing a full turn of movement. Cities on hills give you an extra hammer, higher city strength, and give ranged units in the city a better vantage point. Ignoring movement costs in hills is especially strong for ranged and mounted units, giving you a decisive edge in wars. The melee withdrawal ability of Slingers can be useful when on the defensive. Mountains are also good for you due to Terrace Farms, so settling next to them (for Observatories) is better.

    The Dutch like marshes (due to Polders). Forget the Great Wall, enemies are going to have a very rough time attacking you through marshes! If the marsh is in your territory, it's not a big issue as long as you have a road through it. Their special will let you sell your luxuries for gold to defend yourself.

    Another option is Byzantium, which has two early UU's which are both good on the defensive. Cataphracts can fortify. Dromons are ridiculously good. They can stack with a ranged unit in your city. They can bombard enemy units. Since they are water units, they don't have to worry about being counteracted by melee units (in contrast, your archers have to stay away from warriors/swordsmen while your dromons are in no danger). You can also customize your religion for defensive (getting Defender of the Faith when you found it) or gold (Tithe) or science (Messenger of the Gods or Interfaith Dialogue).
     
  13. erebos

    erebos Chieftain

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    My last game (random/emperor) was as Wu Zetian, decent science and the generals you get can be used to steal land from neighbouring civs (cripple them) while the resulting citadels are great for defense (i took honor policies first and every killing resulted in gold, tithe from religion through stonehenge also gave me a gold bonus). The paper maker is great and upgraded Cho-Ku-Nu machine guns that can fire twice are also handy later.
     
  14. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    Ethiopia with a Tundra Start.

    On Immortal Quick.

    Spoiler :
     
  15. teakbois

    teakbois Prince

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    where are you going with that settler? drop him on the silver and youll get silver + 3 salt + 3 deer + fish + anything hidden in the water for that city
     
  16. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    I dropped him on the forest hill next to the hill it was standing on. It was a link up city for another one to the north (with more farmable land, Dyes, Pearls), and it proved to be a blessing because I've never wonderspammed (through hard building) so much on Immortal - Mausoleum, Terracotta, Pyramids, the GREAT WALL, Notre Dame...

    Spoiler :
     
  17. n00bxqb

    n00bxqb Warlord

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    Am I the only one who uses siege weapons to defend cities? Seems like everyone uses archers.
     
  18. Harv72b

    Harv72b Prince

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    In the early game siege units aren't available, and even when you get to mathematics you'll generally want the first couple (at least) for offense. G&K also downgraded their damage vs. units, so they aren't as effective as a sole defender as a comp bowman would be at that stage.

    Once you get up to Industrial, I prefer artillery defenders vs. gattling/machine guns for the increased range & indirect fire capabilities. Thing is, in most games you'll have more important things to build/buy than replacement garrison units, and up until that point you're probably better off sticking with your upgraded archers.
     
  19. ahawk

    ahawk King

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    This may sound a little odd, but go with China. Why?

    1) Cho-Ku-Nu's are a great defensive tool, and they keep the 2-attack promo when upgraded
    2) Great General bonus is 15% larger for units around them when playing as China.

    Those are two good ways to turtle up, but China has a third bonus for what you want:

    3) Paper Maker's can be built immediately without incurring an economic penalty (although they aren't as powerful as they were several patches ago). That's a good way to start on science without breaking the bank.


    Overall, I actually pick China a fair number of games for turtling, because the Cho-Ku-Nu alone is capable of holding off a large number of enemies. Ethiopia is another obvious choice, as well as Korea or Babylon for their science bonuses. But China has the higher survivability rating compared to Korea or Babylon, and China has a slight science edge on Ethiopia by having essentially gold-producing libraries.
     
  20. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

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    China, Ethiopia, Korea. All good options. Polynesia can be good for a maintinence-free culture machine by using moai's, and you get a 10% combat bonus if you are within 2 tiles of one. Plus the Terror promotion on your warriors isn't bad. That's a 20% bonus without any gg's.
     

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