Best factions by order....

Evil Beejeebers

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I was wondering who you think the best factions in the game are here is my take on them.

1. gaians, I feel they have the best mid to late game which is also really easy to execute.
2. morgans, I like the morgans not as much as I used too but I feel that they are better than the university who I have only had brief game as.


I have not played any of the others too much but I suspect Miriam is a beast to play.
 
spartan ... since i started to play
but are great all factions, in order to preference morgan, hive, university, peacekeeper, gaians, belivers
then came alien crossfire and humbly I take the cue to write what i always think: smac factions were best
alien factions are cool, drones and pirates
 
I have yet to play as some of them but my personal preferences are
1. University (I prefer builder then dominate style games)
2. Spartans (for those games where I can't afford the above)
3. Believers (can be tough to play but they definitely have advantages)
4. Morgan

Haven't played as UN, Gaians, Hive, or *cough*Sid yet.
 
It's hard to make a definitive list. It depends on the circumstances such as map size and fungus level.

I will try to give a rough characterisation.

Strong
Zak
Yang

Average
Morgan
Lal
Deirdre

Weak
Miriam
Santi
 
#1 Gaians The +1 planet is hugely underrated IMHO.

#2 Hive Huge industrial output plus the Command Nexus.

#3 Spartan Underrated faction, really fun to play. Go Police state/green.

#4 Believers Support and probe rating always keeps them in game

#5 University

#6 Morgan Need to stay away from Hive/Believers/spartans to have a fighting chance

#7 Lal (See above).
 
I'm running a battery of tests right now to see which faction is strongest, at least in the AI's hands. So far it's Morgan 1, Hive 1, everyone else 0. Gonna take a while to complete 100 runs... :)
 
All of the factions are very strong, but some require using different approaches. (e.g. Gaian Mindworm Wrangler, or Morgan Probe Team Tidal Wave) Overall I rank the factions as :

1-Peacekeepers(!)
2-Gaians
3-Spartans/University
5-Believers
6-Hive/Morganites

Peacekeepers have a huge advantage early game with free talents, allowing you to pop-boom earlier then build more pods and crawlers than anyone else, sling-shotting your way to an easy supreme ruler victory. The Gaian worm wrangler, on smaller maps, is the most powerful build in the game. You can easily crush everyone with captured worms.

Bringing up the end are the Hive and Morganites, simply because they cannot pop-boom in SMAC. Even though crawlers and probe teams can make up the difference, it is too much of a handicap.
 
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Bringing up the end are the Hive and Morganites, simply because they cannot pop-boom in SMAC. Even though crawlers and probe teams can make up the difference, it is too much of a handicap.

If you can't pop-boom with the Hive or Morgan, make sure that you have the SMAC Win 2000/XP Update (which also can be installed on Vista or Windows 7). Although undocumented, this patch allows those factions to execute a psych pop-boom (which pre-patch didn't work).
 
Wow you guys must be really leisurely about how you take out your enemies, relying on pop booms and industrial crawlers and so forth. The Hive is clearly the best faction because you've got that huge Support as soon as you acquire Police State (your 1st priority), and you can use more troops to keep your peons quiet! Into the tanks! (and I don't mean the kind you drive ;-) The Believers are also tough at the beginning because they have the Support. Gaia can be ok at the beginning if she harvests mind worms fast enough, but her cities will be vulnerable. Not a big deal against AIs, they're too stupid to go for her jugular.

I'm running a battery of tests right now to see which faction is strongest, at least in the AI's hands. So far it's Morgan 1, Hive 1, everyone else 0. Gonna take a while to complete 100 runs... :)

Frankly the strongest faction is typically the one that starts on the Monsoon Jungle.
 
The strongest faction may depend on some of the options you choose. Just bought the game again on GOG, and played last night, and chose steal tech when conquering a base, and boy does that make the Spartans and Believers unbelievably strong. The Spartans conquered the Hive, and the Believers conquered the University. And both are in Vendetta with me (Morgan), and I can't make peace. :(. They are on a different continent at least.

One reason why I chose those options is because I always remembered the Spartans and Believers being weak in my games.
 
The Believers are strong when they're allowed to expand. "Strong" in the sense of "an annoying number of units spamming all over the place that you have to clean up." Not that they're likely smart enough to actually kill you. I'm assuming Transcend difficulty.

I think the only really dangerous time in the game is the very beginning. It's possible to become the focus of factional ire to such a degree that you actually get stomped on. I've resorted to paying factions off at the beginning, because although it hurts my pride, the price of a few gold for all the extra time is darned cheap.
 
You need to understand optimal openings for each faction to properly rate them. I find that Yang, Zakharov, Morgan and Deirdre are pretty consistently better than Lal, Santiago and Miriam. The factions are reasonably well balanced, so which is the strongest tends to depend upon settings.

Yang is all about the Colony Pod spam, and does better as the map gets larger. There is no better faction on a Huge map, as he comes hardwired for growth, industry and drone pacification with minimal teching required.

Deirdre can capture Mind Worms from turn 1, which permits a vicious rush when there are abundant native life forms. She can play a larger map well since she can drop Formers immediately using initial Minerals, but is most dangerous on smaller maps.

Zakharov is probably the most flexible civ. On a compressed map the Impact Rover rush lands extremely early, and as the map gets larger you have much broader options.

Morgan is all about grabbing Biogenetics and rushing Tanks everywhere, then exploiting Free Market. Early rushes severely crimp Morgan's game, and Yang will just bury him on a large enough map.
 
I agree with most of what you said. However, I would rank Lal as strong as Deirdre at least. His opening isn't particularly strong as the -1 efficiency hurts a bit and he will want to place his bases further apart than others (although this is a strategic choice rather than a weakness). However, Lal can bounce back with an easier and stronger popboom (size 9 bases with 3 less drones).
 
The problem with Lal is that he is strictly dominated. Whatever strategy you plan to execute could have been executed more efficiently if you had chosen the most appropriate faction at the start. The Talent bonus also decays pretty rapidly on larger Transcend maps.

That doesn't make him bad, but it does make him inferior when compared to the stronger factions. You pay a price in raw power to gain flexibility.

Santiago has a similar problem; Zakharov is more effective at early rushes by virtue of the massive early research bonus, and Yang ends up stronger on the big maps by way of unit spam. She pretty much has to win during the period when she can deploy Elite units and others can't.

Miriam's big bonus (the attack boost) has bad synergy with everything else that's going on. The research delay makes it difficult to rush and exposes her to rushes, which more or less compels beelining defensive techs. There's a reason she's often the first AI to acquire High Energy Chemistry.

Eventually she gets access to Elite units that are much better than Santiago's, but it's hard for them to make an impact because they tend to arrive at the end of the period when the game is decided.
 
The problem with Lal is that he is strictly dominated. Whatever strategy you plan to execute could have been executed more efficiently if you had chosen the most appropriate faction at the start.

False. Lal is the ideal faction for Diplomatic Victory.

It's easy to win against the AIs on Transcend with Santiago. All you need to do is crank out Elite impact sqauds with no armor! With the elite movement bonus, basically that means they're cheap "speeders" with a 25% bonus for attacking cities. Cakewalk, the AI has no defense against it. Use the monoliths to train them in the beginning. Later you'll get Fundamentalism and/or Advanced Military Algorithms and you won't need to march to the monoliths anymore.

Miriam's big bonus (the attack boost) has bad synergy with everything else that's going on. The research delay makes it difficult to rush and exposes her to rushes, which more or less compels beelining defensive techs.

Not really. All you need to rush an AI is Applied Physics, a puny power 2 laser. Heck I've even killed some AI cities with scouts! Just throw 8 scouts at some wimp like Dierdre or Morgan. You need to pick those unity pods up anyways.

Playing against a human would be a different matter. I'd put my money on Yang.
 
False. Lal is the ideal faction for Diplomatic Victory.

False. Yang is strictly optimal. You get a better industrial base for whittling down key rivals, an absurd expansion rate and the ability to support larger horizontal populations. If the map is large enough that a Diplomatic Victory is more than a conquest win deferred, you want Yang.

Playing against a human would be a different matter. I'd put my money on Yang.

Which is really the point. The AI is sufficiently poor that you can beat it with any faction. The meaningful question is what happens when humans face humans.

Yang is exceedingly dangerous in the hands of a capable human, but the gimped research rate is a problem. If a Zak or Morgan player can get to Superstring Theory fast enough, they can inflict crippling damage and set up a win. It's hard for anyone else to create a large enough advantage to overcome Yang's unit spam. Deirdre's native units match up poorly, and the attack advantages of Santiago and Miriam aren't sufficient by themselves to break the spam unless you can get a coalition going. Where Miriam shines in a human's hands is in a probe war; having Miriam next door as Zak is a serious, serious problem.
 
False. Yang is strictly optimal. You get a better industrial base for whittling down key rivals, an absurd expansion rate and the ability to support larger horizontal populations. If the map is large enough that a Diplomatic Victory is more than a conquest win deferred, you want Yang.

Dude, what crack are you smoking? Lal gets 2x votes! If he gets the Empath Guild, which he jolly well better be working towards for a Diplomatic Victory, that's 4x votes. And he's got population relaxation and extra Talents. Don't know what drugs you're on. Sounds like you never try Diplomatic Victory.

The meaningful question is what happens when humans face humans.

Not really. The game is too long for it to happen very much, so it's just an accident of people's historical play styles. Who's got the patience to resolve this question among uber-equals? Just how many human player games are you basing your conclusions on?

Another problem is, are you going to play a game with strictly humans? A full complement of 7? Then the game is determined by the quality of the players, their political deviancy, and their starting positions. Factions may influence it some, but you're not exactly benchmarking faction capabilities in such a game.

If you don't play the game with strictly humans, and you've got 7 factions in the game, then the AI factions are "food." The game becomes about who can eat the AI food faster. Starting position matters. Do human Lal and Yang start right next to each other, or on opposite sides of a large map with AI food in between?

I've figured out a way to benchmark this without human competition though. Players try Yang or Lal, according to their preference. They are required to win with Diplomatic Victory. They record their best times, shortest number of turns to win. They play on the same size map with the same settings, but it's randomly generated each time. Players publish after action reports. Probably a lot of debating ensues about "why" so-and-so won, and whether it really had much to do with the faction or being parked next to the Monsoon Jungle or whatever. But eventually, enough games would give the answer. Unfortunately, even that is a large number of games and might be considered tedious to know "for sure." Still, it is a somewhat interesting question as when I replayed SMAC a few months ago, I never tried any Diplomatic Victory. Haven't done that sort of things since many years ago.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I beg to differ. I put an incendiary comment up at the top, talking a little smack. Trolling is when you're trying to ruin someone's forum and not add anything constructive. Be that as it may....

My 1st attempt didn't go so well. I played Lal, standard size map, standard map settings, Look First and Do or Die rule changes. Transcend difficulty. I landed in a rough neighborhood, next to both Miriam and Yang. So I eschewed democratic principles and allied with both! Zakharov was nearby and belligerent, declared vendetta on me immediately. So I told my allies to go kill him. Yang got tired of being my ally, but not that many turns later, got more tired of Yang thrashing him and begged for my help. I went Fundamentalist to keep Miriam from irritating me, and helped Yang stomp Zakharov pretty far back. Which I figured I needed to do, because he had found the Monsoon Jungle. I wanted to be over there, but I made the mistake of letting Yang take the cities. Didn't mean to do that, but it's how the combat kept turning out. Then Yang blew me off as an ally again and I didn't have access to that theater of war anymore. Yang and Morgan eventually killed Zakharov off, so, I figure I at least eliminated a threat and kept the Monsoon Jungle a disputed area.

Deirdre had been left alone on another continent and took umbrage to my Planned economy. She irritated me with occasional troops showing up, I stole things from her. Mostly I ignored her and grew my pop. I also sent out ships early and popped a lot of unity pods, making a lot of money. Miriam for some reason never expanded. Seems she settled her first 2 cities so far apart, with myself between them, that she got confused and didn't know what to do. I had been building a secret project, expecting to get Centauri Empathy and get the Empath Guild, but my Fundamentalist phase had kept me from getting the tech I needed. Ended up building the Virtual World, which wasn't useless but not what I had in mind. Brought my troops home and went Democratic. Deirdre got Centauri Empathy first and was building the Empath Guild. I got worried and started focusing all my effort on getting probe teams up there, but my own research kicked in just before I was going to steal it. Built the Empath Guild no problemo.

Then I noticed, my pop wasn't growing anymore because I was food limited. I needed to terraform and I just hadn't put the time in. I had a few big size 8 cities and a larger number of size 4 cities. I started thinking, hmm, I have overwhelming votes right now but I can't win this until I get Mind / Machine Interface. So that means I need a lot of research. So I built network nodes, energy banks, and bio labs. Didn't really build formers. A lot of my cities had forests around them, figured I'd get Tree Farms eventually. Things were going ok when...

...Deirdre made a surprise amphibious assault on a large, fairly isolated, weakly defended city. She actually took it. That was annoying and would have been totally preventable. It's so easy to get bored, I just don't feel like pushing troops around anymore. Do that too long and someone comes for your head. I felt like I had already done a lot of garrisoning, and indeed for any landward attack I had. I just didn't take Deirdre that seriously, I didn't think she had it in her. I quit because, well, even though I'd clearly retake the city eventually, it was boring to worry about it, and I wasn't going to get a stellar time out of this game.

The moral of the story is, I had to play like a reactive chameleon at the beginning, to make sure I didn't get trounced. Then once I got some power, I realized the marathon run was getting to MMI. It's such a long ways away that maybe conquest really is the only option. I thought about just wiping Deirdre out, but I wanted to try to do it "Lal's way." I guess if you're going to do that, you have to be a bit more defensive than I was.
 
There have been quite a few multiplayer games (via play by e-mail and IP) in the 13(?) years of Smacs existence. :rolleyes: Certainly enough to give a good indication of the relative strength of the factions.

Having said this I disagree heavily with some of your remarks, Martin Alvito. While Lal doesn't tech as fast as Morgan or Zak his early research is much stronger than Yang's. He can get an advantage over Yang by reaching certain key techs earlier just like them. His population boom will ensure that he has the production to make use of it and almost certainly give him infiltration of Yang via governeurship (It's not inconceivable, that Yang has more poulation than Lal but he won't even come close to having enough votes.) By the way, if you want to tranlate an research advantage into a win Doctrine: Air Power is the way to go. Superstring Theory has nothing on Air Power.
Lastly, you overestimate the power of Yangs unit spam. If you do not have easy access to your opponents bases (for instance if he is on a different land mass) it's not easy to make decisive use of your larger force. Once Air Power comes into play 'not easy' begins to detoriate towards 'very hard' or even 'almost impossible'.
 
Once Air Power comes into play 'not easy' begins to detoriate towards 'very hard' or even 'almost impossible'.

Also against AIs at least, needlejets award the wonderful capability of walking infantry units right up to the enemy's cities, without any possibility of counterattack. Assuming you've got air supremacy. I'm ambivalent about whether this is an exploit or a reasonable model of air supremacy. Hey it worked in Libya!

Doctrine: Air Power is also a prerequisite for Mind / Machine Interface, so I'll have to try this idea for Lal's diplomatic win. Hmm, the other needed tech is Neural Grafting, which only has Secrets of the Human Brain and Industrial Automation as prerequisites. If it weren't for imprecise research goals, it wouldn't be hard to get. NG is Conquer4 and MMI is Conquer6, so you may have to go through a lot of spurious conquer techs before getting the MMI. I hadn't previously realized that Lal's diplomatic research endgame is Explore and Conquer, not Discover. I'll adjust accordingly.

I'm starting to see why Martin said

The problem with Lal is that he is strictly dominated. Whatever strategy you plan to execute could have been executed more efficiently if you had chosen the most appropriate faction at the start.

I do find that on Transcend, my early game is rather reactive and not particularly "Lal-like" in any respect. In the early game I think it would be better to just trash my neighbors instead of trying to be a goody two shoes building up my own resources. Especially on Transcend, the AI will spawn lots of cities faster, so those are great resources / "food" to take over. Why be a pusillanimous wimp about it? When I try to do the "build my own stuff" thing, Deirdre always gets pissed about my Planned economy, and always makes a surprise attack on an underdefended city. It's not that I couldn't defend against her; it's that it's too boring to bother. I keep feeling like I should kill her the minute I see her, or even seek her out and destroy her. She's the only one who's going to research The Empath Guild, so she'd be a good threat to eliminate.

Ok, I'm going to try the other side of the benchmark: Diplomatic Victory with Yang. By trashing my neighbors immediately, since that's what he's geared for.
 
Having said this I disagree heavily with some of your remarks, Martin Alvito. While Lal doesn't tech as fast as Morgan or Zak his early research is much stronger than Yang's.

Yang's early tech problems are easy to end run against the AI if you have space. Make an early size 5 base via sending Colony Pods, and be sure to use them when the Food box is nearly full. Then stuff it with Librarians and grind down the box. (If Unity Pods are on, you naturally micro nearest production to a Node whenever you pop a Pod. Odds are you'll eventually land one; use that base.)

If you beeline IA and don't trade off the beeline until you start it, you'll get it rapidly. After that, you crawl Nutrients and use Librarians to tech.

You're correct that D:AP can also convert a win (and is generally in a better place in the tree). 6 attack is a bad thing; ZOC and the ability to knock out sensors is not.
 
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