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[C3C] Best government type throughout a match

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by livinginaz, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. livinginaz

    livinginaz Chieftain

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    I have been playing a Greece match on an Earth map. Currently it is 1950AD. I currently control much of Southern Europe, all of the North African coast, and the entire Eastern Mediterranean, with my empire spreading from Spain to Afghanistan. I also have some Russian colonies, and a base on the Caymans.

    I was absolutely dominating for a long time, but around 1700 I began to fall behind a bit. I am about 2 techs behind the bleeding edge at all times, and my army is pitiful. (never been good at building strong armies) My culture is still the strongest in the world, but the margin has gone down a bit. Overall I am still in the lead, but I am starting to stagnate and I am not sure what's wrong. I began to think about government types and how they could've changed this match.

    I started with Despotism until early AD, and switched to Monarchy. Still sailing smooth, I decided to switch to Democracy around 1200 AD, and didn't notice much economic benefit other than corruption going down. I abolished much of my army to remove some of the penalty, and have only recently been rebuilding a force. Mostly air and naval, aimed at crippling enemy cities early on, city defenses need improved. Currently my sliders are at 70% for tech, and 20% for culture. Bringing in about 25 gold a turn.

    Anyone who knows governments, which would be the best overall for maintaining a defense army and staying ahead with culture and science? I am not at war very often and would only need enough troops to stop an invasion. My air and naval raids would be enough to get them to sign a white or favorable peace.
     
  2. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    Republic is considered best by experienced players. You get Democracy's Commerce bonus without its extreme War Weariness effect along with modest unit support (Democracy has none at all, although you pay only 1 Gold instead of Republic's 2 per turn for each unsupported unit). Plus it comes earlier. While Democracy has significantly reduced corruption it's not worth it if you're warmongering which is practically essential at higher levels (Emperor or above).

    BTW it's not deemed wise to switch governments more than once unless you're a Religious Civ with 2 turns Anarchy max; otherwise the bigger your empire the longer the Anarchy. It can be utterly crippling if you're a Democracy, wind up in a war you can't avoid or terminate, your cities go into Anarchy from the War Weariness and you desperately try to switch out (to, say, Monarchy--absolutely no War Weariness, more unit support BUT no Commerce bonus). It can take seemingly forever before your cities are productive again. Believe me, I've been there!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  3. vesperbot

    vesperbot Chieftain

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    Yep, Monarchy vs Republic - how to define a threshold between "Monarchy is better" and "Republic is better"? Given equal corruption, there should be some core region evaluation to determine the prevalence of either government. In Vanilla, I say Mon>Rep at all times until you jump a palace, and even then vanilla Rep's zero support hurts seriously. What about C3C? Also, is there a "second threshold" when Mon starts being better than Rep again, when you develop beyond a certain size?
     
  4. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    Dunno about Vanilla but in Conquests Republic supports 1 unit per Town, 3 per City, and 4 per Metro. Not only is corruption lower than in Monarchy but it also gets the Commerce bonus: every worked tile which has at least 1 Commerce gets 1 more. That's huuuuge. About the only benefits of Monarchy are higher unit support, no War Weariness and you get to use up to 3 Military Police in any settlement (1 Happy Face each).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  5. vesperbot

    vesperbot Chieftain

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  6. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    Thanks for your reply. Couldn't follow the math, it's beyond me. All I could find comparing governments was that in Post #28 alexman says that corruption in Republic and Fascism are the same. In any case even if you're right Monarchy doesn't have the Commerce bonus so unless you're at war most of the time Republic is better IMHO. To each their own.
     
  7. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    No, it does not. Rank corruption is lower as a republic. Still, the difference is not that big.


    Regarding governments: Always go for republic and adapt the playstyle to it.

    The commerce bonus is huge. Early on the gross effect is not that big and the net effect is smaller or even negative because you need to pay for units like workers. But once you develop your economy the commerce bonus is amplified by multiplicator buildings such as libraries and universities. Republic is better than Monarchy by quite a margin.

    Republic and Democarcy are about on par. Democracy can be a tad better than repulic, but only if you can manage the risks of war weariness. In practice it is the additional research and especially the additional anarchy period that are too hurtful for it to ever pay of.

    This seems a tad late. It is closer to 1000 BC that you should leave Despotism in favour of Republic.

    Rebublic tends to favour a mid sized military due to the way that free unit support works.
     
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  8. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    If I want long, sustained wars, I go with Monarchy. Otherwise I go Republic and war strategically. I still war a lot, but I rotate wars between enemies, because war-weariness is by enemy, so I can sustain war forever as long as I'm making peace with one and then picking on the next. (For primary wars; for "fake" wars I typically don't count them and just make peace when it's convenient.)

    I also generally abandon games mid-middle-ages or early industrial ages, so I don't really have any input on late-game governments.
     
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  9. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Warlord

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    Communism and republic are the two governments that let you play "at top performance". That is to say, if played well, communism will have the highest production, and republic will have the highest commerce. So if you want to end the game via production (100k culture, conquest, domination), go communism. If you want to end via commerce (space race, diplomatic, 20k culture) go republic.

    The other governments are all viable in some spots while you're waiting to unlock communism, which is pretty much strictly better than monarchy, despotism, and feudalism. There are some niche uses for democracy and fascism, but more often than not, you'll regret switching. Republic's flexibility (it's actually a pretty solid wartime government) is underrated.
     
  10. WeirdoJoker

    WeirdoJoker Prince

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    I pretty much hit Republic (usually via a successful slingshot) and stay there, though sometimes I'll hit Monarchy if I want an early war. The trouble is that the governments are mostly optional techs that the AI never seems to want to trade away, so I typically have to research one if I want it and that's annoying esp. if I'm looking for a tech lead to the Ship (as with my current game - Carthage/Arch-80%/Standard) without playing a Scientific civ.
     
  11. ciquta

    ciquta Chieftain

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    i usually get to republic around 1300BC and never look back, always managing to keep science lead also on monarch

    however I play with corruption 70% cos I find the standard settings totally unrealistic for this kind of gov.. esp if you live in a continent that stretches in length
     
  12. Theov

    Theov Deity

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    Republic, and like Suede said, you can go Commie if your empire is big and you can't handle the WW anymore. But rarely is communism a better option than Republic. Even if you up the luxury/hapiness slider, and just give the people money to stay happy then Republic is often better than Commie.
     
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  13. Dragon1965

    Dragon1965 Chieftain

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    In my experience the Republic is by far the best government. I usually don't even bother with going to Monarchy first, usually going from Despotism to Republic, then I never change governments again.
     
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  14. Jivilov

    Jivilov Prince

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    OK, but what about the turns of anarchy it takes to switch? Bigger the empire longer the anarchy (unless you're Religious [?!]). You can get Republic early when you're still small so fewer turns lost.
     
  15. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Warlord

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    Great point. Another reason to stick with republic :)
     
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  16. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    IMHO, there's your #1 problem, right there. It's a twofold problem: (1) you played under the despotism penalty for longer than you should have, which slowed you way down; and (2) you switched governments twice. For all but the most war-heavy games, you can switch to Republic and never look back. If you use the Republic slingshot, you can get Republic for free and trade Alpha, Writing, CoL, and Philo around to pick up the war techs and some gold. Once you get into Republic, build roads everywhere and keep wars short. Preferably short and decisive.
     
  17. livinginaz

    livinginaz Chieftain

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    Wow, it been a while since I started this. I have read all the replies but never written back.

    Anyways, I gave up on that game because it was becoming a drag, and war wasn't an option (although I did for fun nuke Korea which brought the whole world into war with each other due to defensive pacts and nuke frenzy). Now I am getting back into the game, and I'm gonna try a Republic rush. I would also like to try a nice conquest-based match where I just roll over the map, but that's not the main way I like to play.
     
  18. Rienob

    Rienob Chieftain

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    I think the best government type relies a lot on difficulty and map settings, but most of all, your victory conditions.

    I used to play huge+continents maps on Sid difficulty level and some magically how manage to win twice on domination/conquest mode. I agree with most posters here that Republic is strong and viable. But in those games, you need Communism, and its definitely worth your second anarchy. Not just for production reasons, but because it makes handling overall corruption in a huge empire possible. Once you reach Commie status you are set for the rest of the game; and it outperforms anything else by a landslide in these settings. When you face an opponent with 2000+ units, playing a Republic simply wont cut it.
     
  19. Theov

    Theov Deity

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    The tile bonus in Republic and the little corruption is only matched by Communism if your empire is huge and you need a production boost from the communal corruption because of Republic's war weariness. However, money wise, even in those situations Republic still has a larger income than Commie.
     
  20. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    In the long run Communism and Republic will have approximatly the same income during peacetime. The lower corruption matters for money, too. Without the tile bonus from Republic it makes a significant difference whether you get the bonus of 3 commerce from being a commercial tribe.

    Still it is unlikely that you recover the cost of the anarchy period and the time after that when you empire is not yet fully optimized for communism. In practice the anarchy period matters most.
     

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