Best Imperialist Leader

[The Almighty dF]

Now it's time for a harder choice. Imperialist is one of the most underappreciated traits in the game, possibly only being beaten by Protective in terms of number of anti-fans.

So, who do you think is the best Imp leader?
Remember, keep in mind starting techs, secondary trait, UU, and UB.

Personally, I've gotta go with Joao for reasons mentioned on the other thread. I don't believe there is a better REXer besides Suryavaraman, I'm fairly fond of his UU, and his UB is very helpful in late game when I'm straining my economy going for that domination win. Add to it he's one tech from sailing (really helping with early coastal cities) and one tech from bronze working (to chop out all of those cheap workers and settlers, especially after getting your cheap granary.)

Don't forget to vote on the rest in the series if you haven't yet:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=376205 Philosophical
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=375548 Creative
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=376228 Charismatic
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=375839 Spiritual
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=376296 Financial
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=376401 Expansive

 

[beest]

This one is seriously though. Imperialistic is one of my favourite traits..

 

[NihilZero]

Objectively the strongest - Jules. Org wins yet again.

Personal soft spot - Justinian. Hard to play, but rewarding and a breath of fresh air.

Also rans are the very good Cyrus and Suleiman.

 

[madscientist]

For being a trait that is not popular or supposed weak except compared with protective, those are some really tough and good leaders. All excel as the difficulty level moves up.

However, I had to pick one and went with my head rather than my heart.

I voted for Julius. Alot of settlers and cities early on backed by the ORG trait to help pay for them. In a cramped position, beeline Iron and wreck havoc with the Prats. Got room to expand without war, settle baby and get yourself a nice GP farm to add the Forum, hell chop out a few wonders in Rome. Isolated? head towards the coast and use early fishing/mining to get yourself the Great Lighthouse by chopping away at forrests.

However, my heart still lies with the Great Khan as there is no better pure war-monger in the game. Economy means little when you simply take what you need, something easy to do with many of the worlds Great Generals at your side. His only drawback is the isolated or large underpopulated continent.

The other Ceasar is next as you can get a fast settler out and then use Rome as a Wonderspam capital extreme.

Charlemagne is deceptively good providing you can get going early enough. The only protective leader with hunting to start, he can build a settler right off the bat (especially if he has a forrested plains mine), research archery and then hit food/economy techs right away. Hell, perhaps even an early religion is within the posibility here. The Rathus is the best UB in the game, however the UU is pretty weak useful only as a city defender against seige weapons.

Joao and Cathy are two of the best REXers in the game although the UU/UB are late or too specialized.

Cyrus has great Synergy as discussed in the Charismatic thread.

Justinian is a very effective war-monger with the SPI trait, cataphracts, and a neat happiness UB.

Suliman and Victoria are good in their own rights but neither seams to elevate the IMP trait.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Charlemagne also has Mysticism for border popping in the rapidly produced cities. I had to go with Charlemagne. Caesar's great if you happen to have the Iron, but I consistently have good games as Charlemagne regardless of map conditions.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Vicky, Cyrus, and the Romans are the serious candidates here. I don't think there's enough variance on a game-to-game basis to pick one.

 

[madscientist]

Charlemagne also has Mysticism for border popping in the rapidly produced cities. I had to go with Charlemagne. Caesar's great if you happen to have the Iron, but I consistently have good games as Charlemagne regardless of map conditions.

True about Julius, however it is rare NOT to have the abundant iron especially if you IMP expanded plus an ORG leader can generally take it with copper and/or horses.

Still I cannot argue about Old Charles.

 

[Windsor]

Best...
2nd tait: Draw between Financial and Philosophical
Starting techs: Agriculture+wheel
UB: Hammam
UU: Praetorian
Overall: Suleiman wins 3 out of 4 categories

 

[bobbyboy29]

Obviously julius is basically impossible to bypass, but since he'll get all the other votes I went with sillyman (Suleiman) the great. Hammams are probably my favourite UB, great for big cities and I'm a sucker for the Jans+ cannons combo.

Obviously nothing beats a praet rush with org to pay for all that land. However, I do find that there's some great synergy with Suleiman. Hammams allow for big, happy, food rich cities to run specialists in and bulb your way to lib. Then grab steel with lib and go drafted jans (thanks to food +happy from hammams) and cannons. If you can pull that off you'll be loving sulieman as much as I do.

 

[Higher Game]

I voted for Julius. Alot of settlers and cities early on backed by the ORG trait to help pay for them. In a cramped position, beeline Iron and wreck havoc with the Prats. Got room to expand without war, settle baby and get yourself a nice GP farm to add the Forum, hell chop out a few wonders in Rome. Isolated? head towards the coast and use early fishing/mining to get yourself the Great Lighthouse by chopping away at forrests.

JC gets my vote too. Organized means serious synergy with imperialistic, and he has good uniques that come early.

Charlemagne is deceptively good providing you can get going early enough. The only protective leader with hunting to start, he can build a settler right off the bat (especially if he has a forrested plains mine), research archery and then hit food/economy techs right away. Hell, perhaps even an early religion is within the posibility here.

Or, he can start with no hunting resources and lose the race to an early religion to isabella or pacal. His starting techs are garbage.

The Rathus is the best UB in the game, however the UU is pretty weak useful only as a city defender against seige weapons.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=374473

I have to disagree about the rathaus. It's about an average economic building. The UU is easily in the bottom 3. Charlie sucks.

Joao and Cathy are two of the best REXers in the game although the UU/UB are late or too specialized.

They really shine if you want to excel on lower difficulties. Their lack of econ traits hurts them a lot on high difficulties, enough to blunt the imperialistic advantage.

Suliman and Victoria are good in their own rights but neither seams to elevate the IMP trait.

Wrong. Vicky pays for the expansion well with financial, and Sully's philosophical trait can also be leveraged. Vicky is frequently as good as JC on many starts.

 

[ethemenanki]

I suppose Caesar has the best arguments on his side. On the other hand he seems to be quite a gamble. No nearby iron means losing one of your best assets, so I wouldn't rely too much on praets.
I actually voted for Catherine. Grabbing all resources and choking my neighbors? Hell, yes! Cossacks don't seem to be too specialized to me since they still can butcher every unit except rifle men. Too bad the research institute doesn't have much use for her.

 

[plasmacannon]

I have to go with a favorite, Augustus Caesar.
He conquers and build wonders, nuf' said?
He pays for his cities by building GLH, Colossus, and Spiral Min, and others, before Julius.
Better techer and forge builder.
Augustus.

 

[madscientist]

Charlie requires a little different thought early on and is map dependant. His big edge is to NOT go after food ASAP like everyone else if you can manage it. Sorry, but the Rathus rules in my book, no discussion on that point. I will agree the UU sucks.

Victoria screams cottages/sea yet has the IMP trait, neither a fast expansionist nor a terribly effective early warrior for great generals. She works well for a smallish concentrated empire. I like Victoria, but there are other better IMP leaders.

Suly is a very good leader, but the IMP seams the weakest link there.

CAthy is a fast REXER at Immortal, fast border pops, fast produced libraries, fast settlers. Just keep settling towards food, get those libraries going and boom.

Joao can expand pretty fast, both in number of cities and size, however his edge stops early (not much of a war-monger for GGs). He can settle far away islands faster than anyone else but cannot absorb the costs very easily.

 

[Higher Game]

I have to go with a favorite, Augustus Caesar.
He conquers and build wonders, nuf' said?
He pays for his cities by building GLH, Colossus, and Spiral Min, and others, before Julius.
Better techer and forge builder.
Augustus.

He also makes the forum look more appealing. JC will want courthouses first, too, making the forum look even softer. I'm just not sure industrious and its synergy with the forum matches up to the org/imp synergy. Both are great.

 

[plasmacannon]

Augustus will build Forums in most cities at some point.
Julius will have wonders, when the AI doesn't get them 1st.

Augustus will have more Great Leaders from the wonders he builds (including Great Merchants for more gold).
Julius will have more spy points earlier.

I'll take Augustus any day.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Augustus will build Forums in most cities at some point.
Julius will have wonders, when the AI doesn't get them 1st.

Augustus will have more Great Leaders from the wonders he builds (including Great Merchants for more gold).
Julius will have more spy points earlier.

I'll take Augustus any day.

Yeah, I've gotta go Augustus too.
There's just too much synergy between the forum and industrious.

 

[Higher Game]

Charlie requires a little different thought early on and is map dependant. His big edge is to NOT go after food ASAP like everyone else if you can manage it. Sorry, but the Rathus rules in my book, no discussion on that point. I will agree the UU sucks.

The rathaus frequently loses out to marketplaces if you've expanded a lot and turned the slider down. Sorry, that's just not much of a UB.

Victoria screams cottages/sea yet has the IMP trait, neither a fast expansionist nor a terribly effective early warrior for great generals. She works well for a smallish concentrated empire. I like Victoria, but there are other better IMP leaders.

Great generals are usually best for military academies, so she has time to use redcoats to take advantage of IMP. The lack of early power isn't too bad; she expands quickly, and just importantly, comfortably with her trait combination. Most other IMP leaders worry about running out of steam.

 

[madscientist]

The rathaus frequently loses out to marketplaces if you've expanded a lot and turned the slider down. Sorry, that's just not much of a UB.



Great generals are usually best for military academies, so she has time to use redcoats to take advantage of IMP. The lack of early power isn't too bad; she expands quickly, and just importantly, comfortably with her trait combination. Most other IMP leaders worry about running out of steam.

Higher game, I will have to say we have distict different play styles.

 

[Higher Game]

Higher game, I will have to say we have distict different play styles.

 

[Fleme]

If UU's/UB's don't play a part, then Catherine wins, but since they do, Julius wins.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to inform everyone that Forum is in fact the worst UB.

Edit: I'm interested in seeing the Organized poll. I have a gut feeling Julius will take that too but I for one am voting for Darius. I could also see people making a case for Mehmed... we shall see.