Best Naval Civ?

[TheyMadeMeDoThis]

Hey all,

First post, woohoo.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on naval civs? I absolutely love playing around with a big navy, even though the game is still a bit too broken to facilitate this type of play (I really hope Ed Beach was serious when he mentioned giving coastal cities/naval AI another look in the future).

But which Naval Civ would you say is the best? (most effective, most fun, however you feel like interpreting the question)

 

[Mozzington]

I always have a strong navy with Victoria of course. I'm sure she won't be classed as the best by some of the more in depth analysts on here but I play and usually win on immortal with her on a regular basis. The free strongest ship you get for each RND built is good for my strategy. Britannia rules the waves of course.

 

[ezzlar]

Norway: Fun with bonus production to naval units and early galley UU that can raid coastal tiles right in ancient era.

Japan: Fighting bonus at coastal tiles. Insane adjacency bonus for City+Commercial Hub+Harbour triangle combined with Naval Infrastructure and Shipyard.

Phoenecia: Strong early UU galley. Half price harbour district with insta heal.

England: Half price harbour. UU is somewhat late to matter.

 

[TheyMadeMeDoThis]

@ezzlar I do love Norway, great way to start a game raiding the neighbors! I've not had much fun with Phoenecia though... Perhaps its been my starting locations but I just can't seem to play to their advantages.... Tips?

 

[ezzlar]

Well. No, Phoenecia was more fun on paper. The Bireme is strong, however there isn´t so much to do with it. It can´t raid coastal tiles and it is not ranged for picking out units. You could do an early game domination of the seas at best which is not that meaningful. And unlike Norway, they can´t do an early ocean tile access.

So it´s more good economy and expansion for Phoenecia.

 

[gozpel]

Saw that ezzlar: Don't forget Indonesia, by the time you upgrade those ships no one else is close.
Save money and faith, upgrade and destroy.

 

[m_mus]

Don't forget Brazil, Minas Gerais are a beast.

 

[kryat]

There was some discussion about this a while back. I remember there ended up being some disagreement between who counts as a naval civ vs a coastal civ vs a land-based civ with a naval UU.

Quick recap

Definitely civs with strong naval focus:
Indonesia, England, Phoenicia, Norway

Arguably naval-focused civs:
Spain, Netherlands, Maori

Strongly coastal, but not necessarily naval civs:
Australia, Japan

Civs that aren’t naval or coastal, but have strong UU or other abilities at sea:
Germany, Ottoman, Brazil, Zulu

 

[Socrates99]

Almost should've done a poll. I'd throw my vote at England. Naval dom doesn't really come into it's own until square rigging when you can pummel cities with multiple ships in a turn and shoot further inland. Their free ships add up fast and her UU comes at the right time.

I'd go Brazil but standard battleships are already so good his UU didn't give me that "omg this is so awesome!" feeling.

 

[BTSeven7]

Indonesia is my favorite on an island plates map. You can really get a strong faith based economy going in the early game with their costal bonus and bee line for the Jong. Can easily get 4 or 5 of those and dominate your neighbors. They are beasts in the classical era.

 

[Sostratus]

First post

Welcome!

But which Naval Civ would you say is the best? (most effective, most fun, however you feel like interpreting the question)

People have covered it but IMO it depends on how you envision yourself playing.
If you want to have a coastal empire stretching along the shore, then England+Phoenicia are the best for that. Phoenicia because they literally focus on settling on the shore, although they are more peaceful.

Victoria-England because they also have a unique harbor district and they get free naval units every time you make one. So that helps with the Big Navy you desire. England also is quite flexible with Workshop of the World, which boosts basically everything once you get to the industrial: powered buildings provide:
food, production, gold, science, culture, amenities.
And the +4 in those areas, sometimes more than once per city, is some serious benefits.

If you want to be more about the water itself, Indonesia is unbelievably good on water heavy maps because of their unique Kampung improvement. It gives production and housing, which is normally what maritime cities lack. My biggest ever cities since launch in 2016 have been Indonesian. The Jong is a frigate that you can unlock earlier, which is also very strong.

I've not had much fun with Phoenecia though... Perhaps its been my starting locations but I just can't seem to play to their advantages.... Tips?

The key with Phoenicia is to recognize that you're really just trying to expand fast with your settler bonuses and leverage that big empire to win. One great trick is that since you can move the capital, if you place it on another continent from most of your cities, you can use Policy Cards like Colonial Taxes (+10% production and +25% gold) and Colonial Offices (+15% growth and +3 loyalty) to then apply to all those cities!
Alternatively, note that they have full loyalty for their coastal cities on the same continent as their capital. Because of how loyalty works, this means you can move your capital and aggressively settle the coast in someone's face, and once your cities get big enough you can even start flipping their cities to you. Or move your capital again and spread to a new target.

 

[Leucarum]

The Dutch UU is my favourite naval UU. So much fun ripping up everyone's defences.

As others have said their river adjacencies mean they don't have to be a naval focussed civ but I enjoy playing them that way.

 

[acluewithout]

This thread covers a lot of this ground, although pre-GS.

Turns out the best naval Civ is Aztec. Maybe Zulu.

Naval game is very frustrating. It’s not just the problems with Coastal and Colonial Cities. It’s also because the AI just doesn’t turn up to play. So, it’s hard to really say who is the best Naval Civ because there’s really no challenge to be had. Sorry.

 

[Sostratus]

Turns out the best naval Civ is Aztec.

Shh! Don't tell everyone!
Builders from other cities can help rush infrastructure in production poor coastal spots. Huge.
And they've loaded chests full of truffles, ivory, and gypsum onto their ships. This makes the cannons approximately 20% more shooty. Aztec science!

 

[Ziad]

This makes the cannons approximately 20% more shooty. Aztec science!

I laughed a lot harder than I should have.

Well. No, Phoenecia was more fun on paper. The Bireme is strong, however there isn´t so much to do with it. It can´t raid coastal tiles and it is not ranged for picking out units. You could do an early game domination of the seas at best which is not that meaningful. And unlike Norway, they can´t do an early ocean tile access.

So it´s more good economy and expansion for Phoenecia.

That's intentional. Phoenicia isn't a martial civilization... their bonuses are expansionist and defensive in nature with the ability to turn offensive if one follows a methodical settling pattern.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Indonesia for me. It's the only Civ that I have played that can come close to Mali in gold output, the bonus naval units and the special coastal building they get are really nice.

 

[bengalryan9]

I think Norway's ability to pillage lots of science and culture is a really fun ability. Send your longships across the ocean, find a victim, declare war knowing they can't do anything to your own lands, and pillage everything you can reach. If your ships start wearing down, make peace, declare war on another victim, and send a different group of ships to reek havoc there.

That said, the Jong is a really good UU for Indonesia, and if you go all-in on on faith production you can insta-buy a fleet to head out conquering.

 

[Abaxial]

The problem with Phoenicia's ability to move its capital is that it seems to take so long to do it ...

 

[Victoria]

The ability for maoris to make quads from the start, their guaranteed coastal start and choice of location and fish bonus + culture bomb puts them in the running and it can be fun if they come across Phoenicia or Norway early but sadly it is short lived and the naval game guarantees to end up with you parking your ships because you are bored of pushing them around... only real surprise is when you forgot Brazil can build battleships early and they are mean.

 

[Sostratus]

Indonesia for me. It's the only Civ that I have played that can come close to Mali in gold output, the bonus naval units and the special coastal building they get are really nice.

That said, the Jong is a really good UU for Indonesia, and if you go all-in on on faith production you can insta-buy a fleet to head out conquering.

It's really to understate how unique indonesia plays on the water. Also, nothing better than setting up a "jong express" caravan to rocket settlers across the ocean in one turn. (Jong provide their movement to escorted units, if they haven't fixed it, it refreshes the escort to the current movement of the jong; this means that as long as you have a jong one tile from the max movement range of another jong, you can chain attach escorts across the seas infinitely.)