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Best Strategy?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by ArataWata11, Mar 9, 2011.

  1. ArataWata11

    ArataWata11 Chieftain

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    I usually won the game in pre-march patch in king difficulty. as usual, the AI always technologically advance for at least an era than me but I always cope up with them in later game. :eek:

    now I felt am having difficulty winning the game, I've nearly lost my 1st game since post-patch, if not for my tricks. what happened was that Rashid my biggest rival, ruled almost all the 2nd continent. influenced 7-8 CS and just built UN. thus, cetrainly he would won the game in ten turns. so what I did was I proposed a trade all my luxory, resources, and GPT for his 20k, he settled for 15k only I hurridly accepted it and buy all unaligned CS then declared war on rashid. I conquered all nearby CS allied with him. by the time we going to UN vote, I already had have 10 CS. thus won the game, but at very low score of 2005. :blush:


    on my second game, were in early 18c and Persia, one of my biggest rival already in modern tech. darius already used nuke on my frontier city and had positioned another two, threatening my two nearby cities. his bomber and fighter plane rule my sky. I have no ground or sky defense at all. I already have infantry and tank, but no match for my enemy sky unit. I think my science is not that so far behind, I already have college and biulding oxford right now. right now am in a mess and certainly defeat awaits me, really need help. :mad:

    wanna know my best option to deal with threat and some sound advice to use in order to cope up or compete with AI in terms of teching in king difficulty next time around if not now. :D
     
  2. Rudimentos

    Rudimentos Chieftain

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    Hey Arata, techwise I would recommend you to make a National College (NC) start. You will receive a bonus of about 10 beakers extra (5 direct from NC + 50% from the additional 5 and your normal 5-7) and will be pretty useful the whole game. You will be astonished how fast you get the early techs.

    Normally the NC start it works like the following:
    - build scout for ruins
    - build worker for improvements, especially hammers or resources like gold/silver if available
    - build / buy library
    - build national college
    - expand afterwards

    Your beeline for teching would be:
    - Mining (forest chops, hammers)
    - Pottery
    - Writing

    If you are able to get a luxery like gold / silver you can sell it right away to the AI and then buy the library for sure. You can even sell your open borders for 30-50 gold. But even without the luxery it's a pretty good start.

    Later on, try to save up some money for as many research agreements (RAs) as possible. Try to make sure that you either blocked (see other threads to this topic) or researched the low techs by the moment your RAs kick in so that you get the beaker intensive medieval techs.

    If you can keep up the RAs and build some libraries and universities later you will have no problems to even stay ahead techwise against the AI in king difficulty.
     
  3. Pinstar

    Pinstar Ringtailed Regent

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    What social policy tree is recommended when following a RA strat? I would think Tradition since you're sticking to a single city for longer than normal, but I could be wrong.
     
  4. André Alfenaar

    André Alfenaar Warlord

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    If you want tips about the 'best' strategy maybe this is of some use. I am playing at emperor currently:

    1. Claim land fast. Usually I go for tradition (only the opening level first) and then liberty.
    2. Building order in the capital: Scout (exploration) > Monument (culture) > worker > settlers > wonder
    3. If you have reasonably big empire you can opt to play defensively and invest in building wonders. Pre-patch I build about 90% of all wonders; post-patch I think I must be happy with 50%.
    4. Think about the city states you want as an ally. Usually I go first for cultural city states that have luxuries that I am missing. And preferrably friendly or neutral; hostile ones cost more. I don't build military units early on; I prefer to ally with a military city state. City walls are good enough to deter an early attack.
    5. If you build wonders in different cities and then go for SP of Freedom you can get an increase of culture of 100% -> SP's are flowing in.

    This is the way I like to play.

    But in general it is good to have a general plan what direction you want to go. I don't agree with the suggestion of building a National College first, because it will cost you the claiming of land. In the end: land is power!

    O, and sign research agreements! :)
     
  5. ArataWata11

    ArataWata11 Chieftain

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    @ Rodi - I will try your recommendation. but I fear, it will significantly delay early expansion. tanx 4 advice though

    @ Andre - rapid expansion is my core strategy in pre-patch king difficulty but now facing problem of tech competition with AI. lagging in tech was also my issue in pre patch but always cope up in later game but this time I find it very difficult if not impossible to cope up considering AI cheating advantage and now seems utilizing more thier air asset advantage in combat compare before.
     
  6. Rudimentos

    Rudimentos Chieftain

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    Well, you can delay the National College and make the second city first, then buy the library for it and build it in your capital. I'm playing emperor and I don't have that much problems with the AI expanding too fast.

    Regarding rapid expansion with NC first: Go for the Liberty social policy tree and take the free settler. I usually have enough money to buy another one and build a third one. Afterwards you will have four cities and the NC.
     
  7. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    No one has yet proved that there is a "best opening" for this patch. Strategies for single player and multiplayer are likely to vary sharply.

    For single player, the discussion seems to center on the following questions:

    1) NC first or REX luxuries? The former risks missing out on attractive city sites; the latter delays the acquisition of critical techs via Research Agreements, because it doesn't clear inexpensive Ancient and Classical techs well.

    2) Landed Elite or Collective Rule? These are the essential early SPs, but you can only have one quickly.

    3) Optimum number of cities? This has shrunk since the last patch, but I'm not certain by how much. There are some vertical proponents, but their evidence is strictly anecdotal, and doesn't prove that the approach achieves any given objective faster than horizontal approaches in this patch.

    For all single player strategies, it seems pretty clear that Research Agreements are the best possible use of your :c5gold:. City-state allies should be considered if you don't yet have Philosophy, already are producing enough :c5gold: to max out RAs, or need the luxury to continue expansion. If you have a decisive tech advantage but need to upgrade units to convert the advantage, then upgrading can be a better use of your funds than RAs.
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    For multiplayer, since cities have to be more spaced, land can be filled faster. Production wins over science in this kind of game. AI is predictable, humans are not. If you go NC first, you take a risk to let other players take the best spots around and they eventually catch you in techs with more cities. I know that because it's always the case when i see somebody do NC first while i expand first.
     
  9. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    That's a good thing really. It means that the best opening might actually depend on the civ you play and the terrain you have etc, instead of just using cookie-cutter strategies.
     
  10. Treso

    Treso Warlord

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    The NC start delays so much the expansion I dont know if I will keep building it...
     
  11. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Yeah exactly...100% agree.
     
  12. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    This is true. If someone takes the best spots, NC rush player must respond or else be disadvantaged. The easiest way to defend this is generally guard a contested good spot with your early units and destroy any enemy unit that approaches. Enemy will generally not be able to have more army, since settler costs more hammers now. If they do have a bigger army, they will not have a settler and you can catch them later with the improved tech of NC, since this also guarantees that they will not have a hammer advantage.

    Alternate ways are immediate buy a warrior and conquer the expansion (4 warrior or 2warrior+1spearman works well). Sword rush, horse rush and longsword rush can also be good, off of 1 city, if there is an annoying neighbor. Expanding before rushing shortens the window and gives them time to respond.

    These rushes work only if they build close to your capital. However, that is generally where the contested land is anyways.

    If someone builds a city within 10 tiles of my capital, I consider that an automatic DoW.
     
  13. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Well i played a game where 2 capital neighbors were within 10 tiles from my capital. Do you DoW both? :)
     
  14. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    There are a number of threads on opening strategy discussions, but I think most of them are primarily discussing Deity play. At Diety level I can see why you would need to REX early and fast. But at King or Emperor level (which is what I usually play at) I have yet to run across a situation where I would consider Liberty over Tradition policies to start. Maybe if I was playing France. The problems I have when choosing Liberty policies over Tradition to start are:

    1. Lack of culture, particularly if I don't hit an early culture ruin. If you start REXing before having a decent culture/turn (e.g., right after Liberty + Collective Rule) then it's going to be a long time before getting another policy.
    2. Slow growth of capitol, because you need to use it for cranking out settlers
    3. Slow tech rate to start. Finding that iron is going to take a long time if you REX first since it will take a while to get your libraries up in each city and make the NC. NC start allows you to research IW very fast right after the NC is up. Make your first settler while you are doing this then place him on/near the iron.
    4. Lack of workers to improve the important (food and luxury) tiles in all the new cities means they are going to grow very slowly and be unproductive until you can beg, borrow or steal enough workers. And sometimes it just isn't feasible to steal enough.

    When playing on King or Emperor it is rare to have a start where you don't have several decent city sites close by that are not in too much danger of being taken by AI. But even if the AI does take them it is likely that with NC start you already out-tech him and can just take his cities quickly. So rushing to those spots aren't necessarily needed.

    With NC start on Emperor I am almost always number 1 in tech immediately after building the NC, and never lose my tech advantage from there on. The only issue I have is the subsequent expansion phase (after NC and Landed Elite) where happiness and gold/turn can become an problem if you don't have unique luxury sites.
     
  15. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Monarchy helps quite a lot with both happiness and gold if you play capital centric . Monarchy with a size 12 capital is 6 happiness and 12 gpt. And set your non-capital cities to production focus (but improve the food tiles first). Default focus will always let your cities grow at a decent rate where you want them to grow to the point where you can work all the high value tiles (resources, river side, mines, lumber mills) but not beyond that until you have specialist slots available.
     
  16. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

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    Even on King, I would suggest delaying expansion for the NC start. There are two fundamental reasons for this. First, if you decide to go for vertical vice horizontal expansion, you want to hit the tradition branch hard to get the benefit of cheap wonders (especially if you have marble in your borders), defense, expansion, and free culture buildings. If you stay small, complete that branch. This will help you get deep into social policies in the game to give you a boost against the AI.

    If you decide to go horizontal, hit the liberty branch through representation to get cheap (and one free) settlers and the benefit of the reduced culture requirements for follow on cities. This will allow you again to hit social policies hard throughout the game. While you are going through the branch, you can get the NC up and running to give you the permanent research boost.

    If you wind up alone or nearly alone, the short delay in expansion won't hurt anything. If you wind up with others near by, you should go tradition anyway. Build a few cities and conquer the rest.

    From my perspective, social policies can be wonderful multipliers throughout the game in whichever way you choose.
     
  17. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

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    It's one gold for every two citizens, so it is 6 gpt.
     
  18. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Indeed, thanks for the correction.
     
  19. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

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    Yes, I absolutely love Monarchy and usually pick it up right after Landed Elite. That's why I like Tradition so much - every policy is good. Even for a Domination victory I like to build up my 3-4 initial cities with Tradition a bit, out-tech the AI civs to either swords/longswords or rifles and then start conquering and razing/puppeting (in which case you eventually also need Piety for Theocracy).

    My happiness issues usually come from growing my cities so fast plus lack of unique luxuries on some maps. That is why I often also beeline for Currency first rather than Civil Service. By beelining for Currency I also get coliseums quickly, which can sometimes be needed fast even in 3-4 city builds. Civil Service is a nice boost but less needed now than before the latest patch, particularly with Landed Elite and some of the new/improved buildings (like granaries, aqueducts, watermills). It's a tough decision though since going for early universities can also be very good.
     
  20. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Your opening strat works very well in multiplayer. Crank some workshops in Landed Elite cities eating mines and you can have a big hammered powerhouse. The only difference is about NC first. Doing 4 cities first is usually better. 3rd or 4th one should land close or on iron. In fact, when i practice at Deity this strat i can stay in the average of hammers produced or better, like being close to the first AI. With such producton, you can destroy some AIs with a massive amount of units in the BCs. When universities are online and 8+ cities, you can at least follow AIs in techs and eventually surpass them in many categories.

    By far, Tradition>Liberty. It's like religions in civ4. At Deity, it's only a trap to go Liberty first.

    Edit : Only delaying Legalism to pursuit a cultural victory may look Liberty better.
     

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